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This is a discussion on Dive in.... within the Breeding & Hybridization forums, part of the Orchid Propagation category; Originally Posted by catfan II did have my interview for being accepted as a student ...

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  1. #11
    Diane's Avatar
    Diane is offline Can't Re-Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by catfan
    II did have my interview for being accepted as a student judge, (I was accepted,)...and I got my first ever AOS award...86 point CCM for my Epi. russeauae 'Jerry Foster' ...

    It had never been awarded before...I'll try to get some more answers on the ploidy topic soon-

    Double Congratulations!!

  2. #12
    Jmoney's Avatar
    Jmoney is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by LJA
    catfan, definitely post back--I'm really interested to hear what they say.

    Hybridizers have been doing this for quite a while now, but I'm really noticing it with Phrags over the past few years: crossing a tetraploid parent with a diploid one to deliberately produce a triploid mule. The idea is to prevent anyone who buys the offspring from using that cross as a stud plant. The same crosses are also made using both diploid or tetraploid parents, whose progeny are either sold at incredibly increased prices, or kept for the hybridizer's own use. This practice effectively "copyrights" the offspring for the short term, though, of course, it doesn't prevent anyone else from making the same cross themselves if they can get hold of two 2n or 4n parents.

    Ennui, you've made a really good point, I think. But without cheaply available DNA testing, how are we to really tell for sure (and judge accordingly) whether a flower is "whole?" Plus, there's a pragmatic issue as well in that AOS judging, even as it stands now, takes boatloads of time. Can we expect judges at shows, already under serious time constraints, to take even more of it doing a DNA test on possible contenders for a quality award?
    There is another reason to have 3N progeny, as triploids are often fast-growing, as opposed to the often slow-growing tetraploids (these are of course generalizations). In the phrag world, many of the actual tetraploids these days are plagued by ragged petal edges, some of which may stem from the oft-used tetraploid Eric Young 'Rocket Fire'. These 4N plants may still be useful for breeding, but they are obviously challenged when it comes to exhibition.

    diploids are often impossible to come across with advanced phrag breeding--that was the problem that plagued hybrids of yesteryear, the genetic dead-end after a couple of generations. this was only overcome by the ploidy work pioneered by the late Don Wimber of the EYOF, which is why most "complex" phrag hybrids will be 3N or 4N.

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