Shop Orchid Care OrchidTalk Orchid Forum Weather Station Links Nursery

Welcome to OrchidTalk Orchid Forums


The Friendliest Orchid Community on the Internet!


  •  » Learn to Repot your Orchids
  •  » Learn Orchid Care Tips and Secrets
  •  » Find the perfect Orchid for your Growing Environment
  •  » Chat with Orchid Growing Professionals

OrchidTalk - "Bringing People Together to Grow Orchids Better!"


Let us help you grow your Orchids better; Join our community today.


YES! I want to register an account for free right now!


Register or Login now to remove this advertisement.

Results 1 to 7 of 7

Cross breeding and pollen target

This is a discussion on Cross breeding and pollen target within the Breeding & Hybridization forums, part of the Orchid Propagation category; I'm hoping someone can answer this fairly obvious, yet possibly complicated question. When crossing two ...

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    jono is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    6

    Default Cross breeding and pollen target

    I'm hoping someone can answer this fairly obvious, yet possibly complicated question.

    When crossing two plants, is there a rule about which one's traits are expressed more strongly in regard to which gets the pollen? Or, put in other terms, does which plan receives the pollen have any impact on the subsequent seeds and pollen? I'm aware there are all kinds of other interactions, dominant and recessive genes, etc. but it seems like which plant gets the pollen might have some impact on the offspring as well.

    If you take plant A and pollinate it with pollen from plant B, then next year reverse the one which gets the pollen from the same two plants (A,B) will the offspring pretty much come out looking the same or will the one carrying the seed pod (and therefore possibly offering more "of itself") express more strongly?


    Thanks,
    Jon

  2. #2
    LJA's Avatar
    LJA
    LJA is offline OrchidTalk Tech Admin
    Real Name
    Louis J. Aszod
    My Grow Area
    Greenhouse
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Cattleya
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Clarksville, Arkansas
    Posts
    3,778
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    Jon, that's a great question.

    On some crosses, which parent carried the capsule and which contributed the pollen makes a huge difference in the quality of the progeny and what particular traits get expressed. On other crosses, it makes absolutely no difference at all. It's really easy to think that mixing genes is like mixing colors; combine yellow and blue and you'll get green. Obviously genetics isn't like that; combine yellow and blue with yellow as the pod parent and you might get a blue field with yellow spots; make blue the pod parent and you may still get a blue field with yellow spots. Or, you may get a dull, overwhelming "bronze" because something recessive in both parents just became dominant by simply making blue the capsule-carrier.

    It just depends on what particular plants you're crossing, and unless the cross has already been made, there's really no way to tell beforehand what's going to happen or if there'll be any difference until someone just tries it and sees. To complicate matters, different *clones* of the same parents can also express very differently. I wish I could give you specific examples to illustrate but I'm drawing a blank right now. I'll post back when something "orchidaceously concrete" comes to mind....

  3. #3
    Jmoney's Avatar
    Jmoney is offline Senior Member
    My Grow Area
    Windowsill
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    paphs, phrags, catts, vandas
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    West Hartford, CT
    Posts
    2,978
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    plastids and mitochondria are inherited from the pod parent, so "they", whoever that may be, suggest that color may be influenced more by the pod parent. some also say, anecdotally, that the pod parent may contribute more towards other characteristics as well. i don't think any of that has good concrete evidence behind it, just the so-called "breeder's touch" or whatever.

  4. #4
    jono is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    6

    Default flower shape

    Thanks for the information, I'll try to find more research and post it if I find it. I'm trying to carry the shape of the flower from one and intermingle that with the other. If this is the gold, should the shape I want to carry be the pollen donator or the pod parent if you happen to know?

    Obviously, I don't have much experience with this and don't even know the proper terms, so I'm sure I'll be happy if the thing works at all, but having a better idea of what I'm doing is always helpful . Let me know if you have any experience with preserving the shape somewhat and which should be what.

    Thanks,
    Jon

  5. #5
    Jmoney's Avatar
    Jmoney is offline Senior Member
    My Grow Area
    Windowsill
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    paphs, phrags, catts, vandas
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    West Hartford, CT
    Posts
    2,978
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    I don't think the inheritance of shape is cut and dry. Certain species will be more dominant for shape, irrespective of pod or pollen status. You could always try the cross both ways and then see how they bloom out...

  6. #6
    LJA's Avatar
    LJA
    LJA is offline OrchidTalk Tech Admin
    Real Name
    Louis J. Aszod
    My Grow Area
    Greenhouse
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Cattleya
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Clarksville, Arkansas
    Posts
    3,778
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    Jon, if you're crossing something new, it's going to be 99% trial and error--and be prepared to wait 5 years to find out the first of your results. Even if you're remaking something that's already been done, just using different cultivars of the same grex can lead to unexpected outcomes, despite however much research you put in.

    Look to see how the grexes you're trying to breed performed in other crosses: that will at least give you some idea--not definitive, by any means--of what dominant traits a certain parent usually passes down. In Cattleya breeding, for instance, B. nodosa almost always passes its flower's shape, regardless of which plant carried the capsule. So when you make your cross, have each parent carry a pod from the pollen of the other and see if there was any difference.

    I wish things were more cut and dried, but unfortunately, they're just not. Be that as it may, some of the most sought-after hybrids were created when someone said, "I wonder what happens if..." and they just went ahead and worked the old toothpick.

  7. #7
    kingiefreak is offline Junior Member
    My Grow Area
    In a Greenhouse.
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    dendrobium...of course
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    laurieton,mid north coast of nsw, aus
    Posts
    18

    Default

    someone once told me years ago....pod carries colour..pollen carries size,shape and vigour.....may work ???

Similar Threads

  1. More Cymbidium Breeding
    By Roy in forum Orchids of Other Genera IN BLOOM
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: October 30th, 2008, 08:49 AM
  2. Genus cross-breeding chart?
    By wetfeet101b in forum Breeding & Hybridization
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: April 9th, 2008, 09:34 AM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: May 22nd, 2007, 08:14 PM
  4. breeding masdevallias
    By eikon in forum Breeding & Hybridization
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: November 4th, 2006, 09:07 PM
  5. Harlequin Phal Breeding
    By Piper in forum Breeding & Hybridization
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: March 19th, 2005, 03:25 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
OrchidTalk --An Orchid Growers Discussion Forum brought to you by River Valley Orchidworks. A World Community where orchid beginners and experts talk about orchids and share tips on their care, cultivation, and propagation.