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intergeneric -> intertribal?

This is a discussion on intergeneric -> intertribal? within the Breeding & Hybridization forums, part of the Orchid Propagation category; Has any research been done to see if intergeneric hybridizing yields progeny that are more ...

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    Default intergeneric -> intertribal?

    Has any research been done to see if intergeneric hybridizing yields progeny that are more apt to breed outside of their subtribe than their genetically "pure" ancestors? I'm just wondering whether, if you muddy the genetic waters enough to create a looser set of breeding criteria, you might get to a parent that would finally allow a member of another subtribe to jump the fence. Does that make sense?

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    I am distinctly unqualified to answer that question.

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    The conjecture may be totally way off base, but the possibility still makes a weird kind of sense to me. Course, that may also just be wishful thinking....

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    Sue, I just reread your CymbidiumGate FAQ entry; I guess this is the part--the artificial genera--that you didn't get to complete.

    Can you point me in the direction you took for your research? What was your process in terms of gathering the info together over at RHS? Maybe I can take up some of the artificial genera where you left off.

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    On the larger question, I can think of how this 'bridging the gap' might take place with regard to phenotypic variation, but not genetic. More specifically: if the pollen structures (the pollen tubes, I guess. This is near the outer limits of my knowledge of botany) are too different, genetically compatible individuals may fail to fertilize. Intergenetic 'bridging' could help that. Genetically, though, I can think of no reason why intergenerics would be any more compatible than any of their constituent genera with a distant relative, excepting in cases where chromosome counts are the issue. In this case, for example, a 2n=40 and a 2n=60 would be more compatable than a 2n=32 and a 2n=60, just because there's less of a difference in chromosome counts. Thus, the offspring of a 2n=32 and a 2n=48, that offspring being 2n=40, would be more likely to breed with a 2n=60 than one of its parents would be (but not more likely than the other).

    If anybody else has a better idea, just reply. I'm just guessing here; I have done no research on the topic.


    Quote Originally Posted by lja
    Sue, I just reread your CymbidiumGate FAQ entry; I guess this is the part--the artificial genera--that you didn't get to complete.

    Can you point me in the direction you took for your research? What was your process in terms of gathering the info together over at RHS? Maybe I can take up some of the artificial genera where you left off.

    Oh, I was just searching the RHS database online. It's a very bad method, as the database does contain unsubstantiated and undoubtedly false claims, and it isn't very well indexed, as evidenced by the fact that a cross would show up in the search in one direction but not in the other.

    I used this page:
    http://www.rhs.org.uk/research/regis..._parentage.asp
    I just entered the genus name as the pod genus, did the search, collected the listing categories, and then switched the genus name over to being the pollen parent, and did the same.

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    Cool. Thanks! I hope others who have also done some exploring here will reply too!

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    Default Mudding the genetic waters

    Well, I wondered the same thing myself, so a year ago I asked the one man in the entire world who I believe would be most qualified to anwer: Jim Rumrill. This is what he had to say:

    Alex: In general, would you say second generation crosses are easier or harder to do? For example, letís say Phals and Vandas are hard to cross. Once you have a Vandaenopsis, though, it is easier or harder to cross that hybrid with either a Phal or a Vanda?

    Rumrill: I havenít much thought about this question, but considering the broad range of possible orchid hybrids, a definitive answer is probably not possible. My gut feeling is that in many cases a fertile inter-generic hybrid might have an advantage as a pod parent in that the restrictive barriers sometimes imposed by a species may be relaxed in the hybrid, thus allowing a wider range of pollen acceptance. However, hybrid pollen can be problematical. Iíve seen hybrid plants that were very pod fertile but lacked fertile pollen and in a couple of cases no pollen at all. Hybrid infertility with potent pollen was much less encountered.

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