Shop Orchid Care OrchidTalk Orchid Forum Weather Station Links Nursery

Welcome to OrchidTalk Orchid Forums


The Friendliest Orchid Community on the Internet!


  •  » Learn to Repot your Orchids
  •  » Learn Orchid Care Tips and Secrets
  •  » Find the perfect Orchid for your Growing Environment
  •  » Chat with Orchid Growing Professionals

OrchidTalk - "Bringing People Together to Grow Orchids Better!"


Let us help you grow your Orchids better; Join our community today.


YES! I want to register an account for free right now!


Register or Login now to remove this advertisement.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 19

PHOTOs: Before and After Pollination

This is a discussion on PHOTOs: Before and After Pollination within the Breeding & Hybridization forums, part of the Orchid Propagation category; For those of you who haven't seen this, there are some fascinating changes that take ...

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    LJA's Avatar
    LJA
    LJA is offline OrchidTalk Tech Admin
    Real Name
    Louis J. Aszod
    My Grow Area
    Greenhouse
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Cattleya
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Clarksville, Arkansas
    Posts
    3,778
    Member's Country Flag

    Default PHOTOs: Before and After Pollination

    For those of you who haven't seen this, there are some fascinating changes that take place in many flowers of the Oncidiinae tribe after they've been pollinated, and I thought it would be interesting to show one of those. Most folks who have pollinated these guys have noticed that, after a successful pollination, the flower color changes and the bloom begins to almost imediately fade. But here's something a little more subtle that many people may not have noticed, and if you've never pollinated these, this mechanism is just downright cool beans!

    These are pics of Mtdm. Cleo's Pride, and I wanted to direct your attention to two structures on either side of the stigma that look like flaps, or wings. I'm sure these have a scientific name but I can't find it right now, so I just called them "Stigmatic Wings."

    In these first two pics of the flower before pollination, these wings are spread widely apart, exposing the flower's concave stigmatic surface between them. The stigmatic cavity is filled with a sticky, viscous fluid that serves to keep the pollinia trapped inside the stigma, and the fluid also helps initiate a burst of incredibly rapid cell growth of a structure called a pollen tube. This tube grows from the pollen all the way through the center of the flower until it reaches the flower's ovary, back behind the petals and sepals. Here's a front view of the stigma and those stigmatic "wings:"



    And a side view, so you can make them out a little better:



    Now here's the very cool part!

    Literally hours afer being pollinated (and remember this is an orchid, so what's going on here is happening at an astonishing rate), the Stigmatic Wings begin to close over the stigma, until the entire stigmatic cavity has been covered and blocked off! These structures serve as gates, both protecting the pollen already inside from being disturbed, and ensuring that no further pollen can enter.

    Here's a pic of the pollinated flower, showing the stigmatic wings completely folded over the stigma:



    This is the kind of thing about orchids that just fascinates the hell of me--these reproductive mechanisms they use to ensure their survival.

    But beyond this, the fact that this particular flower actually accepted this pollen raises many further interesting questions.

    The pollen came from that Eulophia keithii I sent to Sue, a plant that belongs taxonomically in a completely different subtribe (Cyrtopodiinae) than the Miltonidium pod parent here (Oncidiinae). While these kinds of inter-tribal crosses *can* sometimes occur, it's generally accepted that they won't be successful.

    Assuming this cross "takes" and produces viable seed (just because a flower gets pollinated does not mean the cross has been successful: the seed, if any are produced, has to sprout, and the seedlings have to actually grow past the corm stage into adult plants--many crosses don't get past the corm stage before the seedlings all mysteriously die), was it because Eulophia was placed in the wrong taxonomic group? Is Eulophia not specialized enough--is it "primitive" enough--to breed with a diverse range of genera? Or is Mtdm., being an intergeneric hybrid, "muddy" enough genetically to accept pollen from genera completely outside the subtribe of its ancestors?

    I just don't know.

    But it'll be interesting to see how this one turns out!

    Cool stuff, in any case.

  2. #2
    mde's Avatar
    mde
    mde is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    653

    Default

    Wow, very cool. I've never even ventured the possibility of breeding and pollinating, but enjoy learning about it as the bug may hit me sometime. Right now I think I'm too impatient. I want immediate gratification! Thanks for the very interesting thread. Keep us posted.

    Matt

  3. #3
    orchidaddict789's Avatar
    orchidaddict789 is offline Senior Member
    My Grow Area
    Windowsill
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Phalaenopsis/Cattleya species
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    USA (MD)
    Posts
    669
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    That's very interesting! That's a great observation--proof that orchids are very smart plants indeed . hmmm, a eulophia and miltonidium--interesting cross. I wonder how it will turn out...hope it's successful!

  4. #4
    Gilda is offline "Master of the Moth and Phrags "
    My Grow Area
    On a Windowsill.
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    phrags
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    East TN
    Posts
    944
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    Thank you Louis !!~ I love stuff like this ,too. Never knew that happened and in a matter of hours..too cool !
    Did you happen to see the Nature program on PBS about the Brazil Nut tree? Well, it seems that they found this waspy fly is the only pollinator of it and guess what the male fly does to attract a female ??? Give up ??? He wallows all over this orchid to get the perfume or the female is not attracted to him...soooooooooo no orchid ,no fly , no Brazil nuts ! Just grand huh ?

  5. #5
    TundraKev's Avatar
    TundraKev is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    MN
    Posts
    971

    Default

    I really love this stuff too. It's very cool to actually have someone explain the whole process with photos to boot. Thanks much. Do more of this stuff.

    Kev

  6. #6
    sadie's Avatar
    sadie is offline Senior Member
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Phal Vanda Aer Angrm Catts
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,422

    Default

    Wow! That is an amazing change -- and so quickly after pollination. Thanks for the interesting info and pictures to boot!

  7. #7
    LJA's Avatar
    LJA
    LJA is offline OrchidTalk Tech Admin
    Real Name
    Louis J. Aszod
    My Grow Area
    Greenhouse
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Cattleya
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Clarksville, Arkansas
    Posts
    3,778
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    Hey--you're all welcome! I like doing posts like this when I have the time to put something together--glad you enjoyed it. I'll update here as things progress (or don't).

  8. #8
    bench72's Avatar
    bench72 is offline Moderator
    Real Name
    Tim
    My Grow Area
    Porch/Patio.
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Paphiopedilums
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    5,480
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    This is kewl! It's like an orchid drama mini series and well you know how I love those... fingers crossed that the love between Cleo and keithii 'blossoms'..

  9. #9
    Piper's Avatar
    Piper is offline Hangs
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    7,068

    Default

    Orchid sex!

    Porn, porn, porn!

    Julie

    PS - Nice one, Louis - thanks!

  10. #10
    shalene is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    missouri
    Posts
    148

    Default

    Very interesting and your photos are wonderful!!! Thanks for doing this for us. I don't have the room or the patience at this time to get involved with breeding but it is very exciting to hear and read about everyone's experiments.
    Thanks again,
    Shalene

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Orchid Pollination
    By orchidlady in forum General Orchid Culture
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: September 7th, 2009, 10:36 PM
  2. Hand Pollination of Phal
    By Prime in forum Breeding & Hybridization
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: August 25th, 2009, 11:00 PM
  3. Another interesting pollination/coexistence
    By wetfeet101b in forum Breeding & Hybridization
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: May 15th, 2008, 06:41 PM
  4. Pollination.....
    By dahlia_guy in forum Breeding & Hybridization
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: April 4th, 2005, 10:25 PM
  5. Pollination Question
    By Orchidilerium in forum Breeding & Hybridization
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: February 1st, 2005, 09:29 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
OrchidTalk --An Orchid Growers Discussion Forum brought to you by River Valley Orchidworks. A World Community where orchid beginners and experts talk about orchids and share tips on their care, cultivation, and propagation.