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Phragmipaphium

This is a discussion on Phragmipaphium within the Breeding & Hybridization forums, part of the Orchid Propagation category; i found this site recently: http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/orchids...gs_hybrids.asp supposedly phragmipaphium charming daughter. so are you all saying ...

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  1. #11
    kewpie's Avatar
    kewpie is offline Senior Member
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    i found this site recently:

    http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/orchids...gs_hybrids.asp

    supposedly phragmipaphium charming daughter.

    so are you all saying this is a hoax? i just grow em, i dont breed em, so im curious.

  2. #12
    LJA's Avatar
    LJA
    LJA is offline OrchidTalk Tech Admin
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    The details sound like it's at least an honest attempt. Might actually be promising.

  3. #13
    Jmoney's Avatar
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    I have purchased orchids from and sent pollen to Matt Pedersen, and believe him to be an honest individual. I imagine that some of the other phragmipaphium hybrids were registered by likewise well-intentioned persons. But lab error must play a role somewhere, or self-pollination perhaps, or some other reason. I smell something fishy here with the biology--there are way too many registered phragmipaphium crosses to be solely due to avarice and the desire for attention. Perhaps the paph pollen triggers the pod to take but is somehow unable to pollinate the phrag, which then somehow self-pollinates. That is 100% unfounded speculation, of course. But there are at least 2 species in the land of phragmipedium that are known to self-pollinate (lindenii, schlimii).

  4. #14
    LJA's Avatar
    LJA
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    Jason, is it a chromosome count issue? Or have too many people tried and failed, making these few seem less than plausible?

  5. #15
    Paphraguy is offline Former User
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    Yes, Matt is an honest grower and breeder but I too have doubts about the Paph/Phrag hybrid.

  6. #16
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    I would imagine that the incompatibility has more to do with different chromosome sizes (or differences in the genetic material itself that renders intergenerics nonviable) than the chromosome counts, although to be honest I don't have a listing of the chromosome numbers in front of me. IIRC, phrag chromosomes are much much smaller than those of paphs; perhaps that is the obstacle to a viable embryo. I am of course just speculating. I am sure that the vast majority of phragmipaphium attempts are met with failure, and even of those that produce plants, few bloom.

    Here's an interesting account of the original Hanes Magic 'Bion' that garnered an AD. The photos on that page are of a different clone, which to me has no obvious phrag characteristics.

    phragweb

  7. #17
    Sue's Avatar
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    Wow. An interesting link.

    Makes me glad I don't breed slippers. I'd be tearing my hair out. So much weirdness, and me without a lab or a biology degree.

  8. #18
    LJA's Avatar
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    Hmm. Same Medusa photos there as on Dr. Tanaka's site. It's almost like those folks who give accounts of their UFO experiences and then offer up the same photo as "proof."

    Now *I'm* getting skeptical, and I was trying to keep an open mind....

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