Shop Orchid Care OrchidTalk Orchid Forum Weather Station Links Nursery

Welcome to OrchidTalk Orchid Forums


The Friendliest Orchid Community on the Internet!


  •  » Learn to Repot your Orchids
  •  » Learn Orchid Care Tips and Secrets
  •  » Find the perfect Orchid for your Growing Environment
  •  » Chat with Orchid Growing Professionals

OrchidTalk - "Bringing People Together to Grow Orchids Better!"


Let us help you grow your Orchids better; Join our community today.


YES! I want to register an account for free right now!


Register or Login now to remove this advertisement.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15

Paph Gurus - HELP!

This is a discussion on Paph Gurus - HELP! within the Breeding & Hybridization forums, part of the Orchid Propagation category; I think I have found my Winston Churchill - leaning toward Indomitable, like the spots- ...

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    Diane's Avatar
    Diane is offline Can't Re-Member
    My Grow Area
    Windowsill
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Catts and Paphs
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Surprise, AZ
    Posts
    6,250
    Member's Country Flag

    Exclamation Paph Gurus - HELP!

    I think I have found my Winston Churchill - leaning toward Indomitable, like the spots- but need clarification on something. The grower says the plants are ' FCC/AOS clones '. The man is a reputable grower/breeder, so I would not normally doubt him, but I have always been told you can not clone Paphs. So - can they clone Paphs? If not, then what does he mean by saying the plant is a clone? (I see other paphs listed as clones in many places)

    I'm soooo confused...

  2. #2
    Diane's Avatar
    Diane is offline Can't Re-Member
    My Grow Area
    Windowsill
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Catts and Paphs
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Surprise, AZ
    Posts
    6,250
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    Say - did all the Paph people take the day off?? I thought sure someone would have explained all this to me by now. C'mon you Gurus, explain this mystery to me!

  3. #3
    Orchidzrule's Avatar
    Orchidzrule is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Rob Parsons
    My Grow Area
    Under Lights
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Phragmipedium
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Winnipeg, MB, CANADA
    Posts
    933
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    Hi Diane,

    I know less about Paphs than you do, never having grown them. However, I have been informed by someone who does know what he's talking about. It's true that you can't clone them via the usual tissue culture techniques. (Maybe some day someone will figure out how...)

    The term clone can be used in a couple of ways, however. In some cases it simply means vegetatively propagated. Thus, if I were to divide an Oncidium Twinkle 'Fragrance Fantasy' into several smaller plants they would be clones of the mother plant. All Onc. Twinkle 'Fragrance Fantasy' originally came from an individual plant.

    Similarly, with Paphs, you can divide plants with several growths. All of the resulting divisions would be correctly referred to by the same name, including Genus, species or grex, clonal name and AOS award (if any for the last two).

    The bottom line to this rather long story, is he is not trying to pull a fast one on you. Don't be afraid to buy the plant.

    Cheers,

    Rob

  4. #4
    Diane's Avatar
    Diane is offline Can't Re-Member
    My Grow Area
    Windowsill
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Catts and Paphs
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Surprise, AZ
    Posts
    6,250
    Member's Country Flag

  5. #5
    Jmoney's Avatar
    Jmoney is offline Senior Member
    My Grow Area
    Windowsill
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    paphs, phrags, catts, vandas
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    West Hartford, CT
    Posts
    2,978
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    people sometimes use the term "clone" interchangably with "cultivar". It's probably not correct, but I say spike and I say clone even when dealing with paphs. It all depends on whether or not the vendor is reputable. There are some real clowns out there, especially in the paph world.

  6. #6
    Orchidzrule's Avatar
    Orchidzrule is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Rob Parsons
    My Grow Area
    Under Lights
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Phragmipedium
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Winnipeg, MB, CANADA
    Posts
    933
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    Diane,

    If there is any discrepancy between Jason's coments and mine (especially with respect to reliability of a vendor) on Paphs, take his word over mine. I know Jason is very knowledgeable about Paphs.

    I daresay clone & cultivar are not totally interchangeable terms, as there are some very stable cultivars that *can* be propagated by seed (many tomatoes, for example), but I think they're often pretty much the same thing. I believe a clone is, by definition, also a cultivar, but a cultivar is not necessarily always a clone. (Hope I'm not confusing you!)

    Cheers,

    Rob

  7. #7
    Diane's Avatar
    Diane is offline Can't Re-Member
    My Grow Area
    Windowsill
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Catts and Paphs
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Surprise, AZ
    Posts
    6,250
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    I spend most of my time being confused any way LOL. The vendor is very reputable, is a much in demand lecturer in the local area and gives clinics on paphs and phrags. That is all he deals in and basically only sells his own 'creations'. I am getting a clone/cultivar/division/whatever of his FCC/AOS Winston Churchill Indomitable. The cat is going to have to go without catnip for a couple months to pay for it, but it is a plant with special meaning for me and I have waited a long time for it. When I get it I will post a picture (It's not in spike), and when it blooms also.

    Then you guys will have PAPH ENVY!!! Ahhhhh hah hah hah ha haaaaaa

  8. #8
    SteveT's Avatar
    SteveT is offline Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    40

    Default

    Yes, it is possible to clone paphs, but nobody does it because they typically don't know how and the outcome isn't usually very good unless you have amazing techniques/media.

    However, this one was definitely a division of an adult plant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane
    I think I have found my Winston Churchill - leaning toward Indomitable, like the spots- but need clarification on something. The grower says the plants are ' FCC/AOS clones '. The man is a reputable grower/breeder, so I would not normally doubt him, but I have always been told you can not clone Paphs. So - can they clone Paphs? If not, then what does he mean by saying the plant is a clone? (I see other paphs listed as clones in many places)

    I'm soooo confused...

  9. #9
    Jmoney's Avatar
    Jmoney is offline Senior Member
    My Grow Area
    Windowsill
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    paphs, phrags, catts, vandas
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    West Hartford, CT
    Posts
    2,978
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    I don't know how you can say definite unless you know the vendor in question and can vouch for reliability.

    And I have yet to hear of anyone reliably cloning paphs. I'm sure it will happen at some point but so far it's just a pile of rumors to me.

  10. #10
    SteveT's Avatar
    SteveT is offline Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    40

    Default

    The reason I can say it is definite is because there is no other reasonable possibility. I would know if someone was offering cloned paphiopedilums, so via reductio ad absurdum, it is a division.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Paph spicerianum x sib and Paph. Pulsar x Paph. Hsinying Quatal Slippers in Bloom
    By gardenguysorchids in forum Paphiopedilum & Phragmipedium Info.
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: May 1st, 2013, 04:05 AM
  2. Paph. Justice Clarence Thomas (Paph. henryanum x Paph. Supersuk) 'RVO OrchidTalk'
    By Brutal_Dreamer in forum Paphiopedilum, Phragmipedium, Cypripedium IN BLOOM
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: October 7th, 2009, 02:11 PM
  3. Paph. Pulsar 'Fang Pacific' HCC/AOS x Paph. Robert de Veer 'Rurescent' AM/AOS
    By Brutal_Dreamer in forum Paphiopedilum, Phragmipedium, Cypripedium IN BLOOM
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: June 5th, 2007, 11:38 AM
  4. Oh gurus, please ID this for me
    By wogga in forum Cattleyas, Vandas, Dendrobiums IN BLOOM
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: June 23rd, 2006, 03:56 AM
  5. Paph (Pulsar x Black Cherry) '#1' X Paph. fairrieanum 'Super Red'
    By Piper in forum Paphiopedilum, Phragmipedium, Cypripedium IN BLOOM
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: January 19th, 2006, 10:50 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
OrchidTalk --An Orchid Growers Discussion Forum brought to you by River Valley Orchidworks. A World Community where orchid beginners and experts talk about orchids and share tips on their care, cultivation, and propagation.