Shop Orchid Care OrchidTalk Orchid Forum Weather Station Links Nursery

Welcome to OrchidTalk Orchid Forums


The Friendliest Orchid Community on the Internet!


  •  » Learn to Repot your Orchids
  •  » Learn Orchid Care Tips and Secrets
  •  » Find the perfect Orchid for your Growing Environment
  •  » Chat with Orchid Growing Professionals

OrchidTalk - "Bringing People Together to Grow Orchids Better!"


Let us help you grow your Orchids better; Join our community today.


YES! I want to register an account for free right now!


Register or Login now to remove this advertisement.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 22
Like Tree6Likes

Misnomer? Pot. Paradise Beauty 'Golden Angel'

This is a discussion on Misnomer? Pot. Paradise Beauty 'Golden Angel' within the Cattleyas, Vandas, Dendrobiums IN BLOOM forums, part of the Orchid Photography category; Originally Posted by Kassie I may have just exposed another hole in my knowledge and ...

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #11
    Kmac's Avatar
    Kmac is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Kathi
    My Grow Area
    Porch/Patio.
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    How can I pick just one???
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    2,515
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kassie View Post
    I may have just exposed another hole in my knowledge and perhaps more tag irregularities. In order to have a cultivar name, like, oh, say, 'Dancing Girl' or '#15', there has to have been an award, right? I'm not finding any awards for Rth. Orquidacea's Little Fortune.
    .
    Not at all. Many cultivars are named & registered, but not awarded. Typically IF they are awarded, the award (FCC, AM, HCC) will be on the tag (it becomes part of the name...but it may not be, esp. if the orchid was tagged before it was awarded.

    Then you have the orchids that are named, but never registered, and so "unfindable"...more and more of these it seems....sounds like yours may be one of those.

  2. #12
    mauraec's Avatar
    mauraec is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Maura Caffrey
    My Grow Area
    Outside 24/7
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Paphiopedilum lowii
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Englewood, FL
    Posts
    3,092
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    I also have a Pot. Little Fortune '#15' - and a Pot. Little Fortune 'NN' - I think I may have posted them about 6 weeks ago or so. The tag is exactly the same as yours. I also googled Paradise Beauty 'Golden Angel' and came up with a lot of results - you might want to check it out.

    Oh - and about the Bratonia/Miltassia change - I have NO idea what they were thinking when they changed it - apparently, the hybrid was at one point years back called a Bratonia. Seems to me that if, like mine, your Miltassia has a lot more Miltonia in it than Brassia, the Milt should come first - but of course, that's just logical thinking and we all know they don't necessarily think that way over at the RHS. Seems like there was a powerful Brassia lobbying firm there that day.
    Last edited by mauraec; January 10th, 2012 at 10:41 PM. Reason: add

  3. #13
    Michael Saar is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Michael Saar
    My Grow Area
    Greenhouse
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Bulbophyllum
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Little Rock, AR
    Posts
    364
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    If you'd like to be further confused, Google "Pot Paradise Beauty" and one of the results will be a clone 'Marcela', which has solid purple petals and lip, and solid white sepals.

  4. #14
    opaline's Avatar
    opaline is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Matt
    My Grow Area
    Sunroom
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Catasetinae
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    830
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    'what sort of weird negotiations went into changing "Miltassia", a perfectly serviceable and elegant combination, into "Bratonia"? Seriously, had we offended the brassia delegation? Were the miltonias in need of a capital infusion?' - kassie.

    After reading aforementioned it seems that i was corrected with not such accurate information on these renaming politics. Genetic testing? - majority and minority links to parentage / taxonomists? Possible occurence of hybrid naturally occuring in nature - hence completely different label altogether. Thought that that would be to generalised. Rhyncolaeliacattleyas - possibility of natural hybridisation? or lab testtubes?

    Its to early, time to peruse new pics.

  5. #15
    Halloamey's Avatar
    Halloamey is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Amey Bhide
    My Grow Area
    Greenhouse
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Cattleya alliance
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Pune, India
    Posts
    5,363
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    It happens all the time, especially when different countries and languages are involved, for eg. I posted pictures of Bl. Golden MÜll 'Orient' which came with a Tag from a German nursery, but I am also unable to find it on RHS and Orchid Wiz.

  6. #16
    Halloamey's Avatar
    Halloamey is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Amey Bhide
    My Grow Area
    Greenhouse
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Cattleya alliance
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Pune, India
    Posts
    5,363
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    Oh, I forgot to mention, I attended the RHS talk at the WOC, regarding naming of a grex and designating names to NOIDs, and it turns out you can register a NOID. It can have its own grex name. You can also use it for hybridization. It is very clear that more than 60 to 70 percent hybrid orchids with very complex pedigrees have parents with unknown origin in them. But that won't stop them from having their individual identity.

  7. #17
    mauraec's Avatar
    mauraec is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Maura Caffrey
    My Grow Area
    Outside 24/7
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Paphiopedilum lowii
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Englewood, FL
    Posts
    3,092
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Halloamey View Post
    Oh, I forgot to mention, I attended the RHS talk at the WOC, regarding naming of a grex and designating names to NOIDs, and it turns out you can register a NOID. It can have its own grex name. You can also use it for hybridization. It is very clear that more than 60 to 70 percent hybrid orchids with very complex pedigrees have parents with unknown origin in them. But that won't stop them from having their individual identity.
    Amey - that is REALLY interesting. You can actually register a NOID (without parentage, obviously) and designate a grex name???? And, I assume, although it won't have parentage itself, when hybridized with a registered parent, the resulting hybrid can be registered AND have named parents? What was their thinking on that one, I wonder? For AOS judging purposes, any orchid submitted for judging has to have known parentage, although a registration and a grex name aren't required - I wonder what the judges would think if they came to a dead end in the genealogy profile once they looked up the parents? A rhetorical question, really, but maybe you or some other member actually know the answer.

  8. #18
    Halloamey's Avatar
    Halloamey is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Amey Bhide
    My Grow Area
    Greenhouse
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Cattleya alliance
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Pune, India
    Posts
    5,363
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    Yes Maura it is possible to register a NOID with the RHS and then it can used as a parent for hybridization. That was the exact question I asked. But you have to have it registered, without that it will not be possible to judge it. Coming to a dead end in the genealogy would be just like getting to end till we have the species, so essentially in the horticultural perspective a NOID will be treated as a species or a starting point for that plant. And since it will be a registered plant , the judges will know what it looks like and if the progeny is better wrt to it or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by mauraec View Post
    Amey - that is REALLY interesting. You can actually register a NOID (without parentage, obviously) and designate a grex name???? And, I assume, although it won't have parentage itself, when hybridized with a registered parent, the resulting hybrid can be registered AND have named parents? What was their thinking on that one, I wonder? For AOS judging purposes, any orchid submitted for judging has to have known parentage, although a registration and a grex name aren't required - I wonder what the judges would think if they came to a dead end in the genealogy profile once they looked up the parents? A rhetorical question, really, but maybe you or some other member actually know the answer.

  9. #19
    mauraec's Avatar
    mauraec is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Maura Caffrey
    My Grow Area
    Outside 24/7
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Paphiopedilum lowii
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Englewood, FL
    Posts
    3,092
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Halloamey View Post
    Yes Maura it is possible to register a NOID with the RHS and then it can used as a parent for hybridization. That was the exact question I asked. But you have to have it registered, without that it will not be possible to judge it. Coming to a dead end in the genealogy would be just like getting to end till we have the species, so essentially in the horticultural perspective a NOID will be treated as a species or a starting point for that plant. And since it will be a registered plant , the judges will know what it looks like and if the progeny is better wrt to it or not.
    Thread hijack for one more second:

    As it turns out, Amey, this is not quite as rhetorical a subject as I had thought, and your information has helped tremendously with my somewhat ruffled calm. For that, I thank you very much indeed.

    Yesterday, a pretty vinicolor paph that I posted a little way back won an HCC/AOS. However, although I know the parents, it has never been registered as a hybrid. The AOS award is provisional until I register it with the RHS and give it a grex. The local nursery where I bought it gets hundreds of unregistered, and often untagged, hybrids, and although this one has a tag, there is no indication who tagged it, or, seemingly, any way to trace the originator, so it will have to be submitted to the RHS as "Originator Unknown". I'm very nervous about sending it in as that, so I'm searching records for a registration by someone else right up until I send in the final paperwork (email, I believe); I also have to come up with 2 grex names (1st and 2nd choice).

    So....in the end, I will have named the grex as well as the individual plant, the latter of which I had to do at the judging session (it is 'Henry's Turn' - after my second-born child, Henry, "my" first HCC having been named after his older sister). Considering the great attention paid to identifying a given plant, this is, at the moment, making me feel quite responsible for getting it all done right.

    I thought it an odd coincidence in light of the ongoing conversation. If I run into any questions, may I put them to you?

  10. #20
    Halloamey's Avatar
    Halloamey is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Amey Bhide
    My Grow Area
    Greenhouse
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Cattleya alliance
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Pune, India
    Posts
    5,363
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    Oh surely Maura, I will try to help in any way I can.
    Quote Originally Posted by mauraec View Post
    Thread hijack for one more second:

    As it turns out, Amey, this is not quite as rhetorical a subject as I had thought, and your information has helped tremendously with my somewhat ruffled calm. For that, I thank you very much indeed.

    Yesterday, a pretty vinicolor paph that I posted a little way back won an HCC/AOS. However, although I know the parents, it has never been registered as a hybrid. The AOS award is provisional until I register it with the RHS and give it a grex. The local nursery where I bought it gets hundreds of unregistered, and often untagged, hybrids, and although this one has a tag, there is no indication who tagged it, or, seemingly, any way to trace the originator, so it will have to be submitted to the RHS as "Originator Unknown". I'm very nervous about sending it in as that, so I'm searching records for a registration by someone else right up until I send in the final paperwork (email, I believe); I also have to come up with 2 grex names (1st and 2nd choice).

    So....in the end, I will have named the grex as well as the individual plant, the latter of which I had to do at the judging session (it is 'Henry's Turn' - after my second-born child, Henry, "my" first HCC having been named after his older sister). Considering the great attention paid to identifying a given plant, this is, at the moment, making me feel quite responsible for getting it all done right.

    I thought it an odd coincidence in light of the ongoing conversation. If I run into any questions, may I put them to you?

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Bpl. Golden Peacock 'Orange Beauty'
    By Cjcorner in forum Cattleyas, Vandas, Dendrobiums IN BLOOM
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: December 1st, 2011, 10:12 PM
  2. Bpl. Golden Peacock 'Orange Beauty'
    By gardenguysorchids in forum Cattleyas, Vandas, Dendrobiums IN BLOOM
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: September 11th, 2011, 01:23 PM
  3. Bpl. Golden Peacock 'Orange Beauty'
    By Cjcorner in forum Cattleyas, Vandas, Dendrobiums IN BLOOM
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: August 6th, 2011, 06:46 AM
  4. Dtps. Sin Yuan Golden Beauty
    By mauraec in forum Phalaenopsis, Oncidium, & Intergenerics IN BLOOM
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: June 16th, 2011, 02:09 PM
  5. LC Hwa Yuan Angel "Little Beauty"
    By Molly Taco in forum Cattleyas, Vandas, Dendrobiums IN BLOOM
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: July 16th, 2010, 04:34 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
OrchidTalk --An Orchid Growers Discussion Forum brought to you by River Valley Orchidworks. A World Community where orchid beginners and experts talk about orchids and share tips on their care, cultivation, and propagation.