Shop Orchid Care OrchidTalk Orchid Forum Weather Station Links Nursery

Welcome to OrchidTalk Orchid Forums


The Friendliest Orchid Community on the Internet!


  •  » Learn to Repot your Orchids
  •  » Learn Orchid Care Tips and Secrets
  •  » Find the perfect Orchid for your Growing Environment
  •  » Chat with Orchid Growing Professionals

OrchidTalk - "Bringing People Together to Grow Orchids Better!"


Let us help you grow your Orchids better; Join our community today.


YES! I want to register an account for free right now!


Register or Login now to remove this advertisement.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 22
Like Tree6Likes

Misnomer? Pot. Paradise Beauty 'Golden Angel'

This is a discussion on Misnomer? Pot. Paradise Beauty 'Golden Angel' within the Cattleyas, Vandas, Dendrobiums IN BLOOM forums, part of the Orchid Photography category; I have really enjoyed this little miniature catt hybrid, but I'm having trouble with its ...

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    Kassie's Avatar
    Kassie is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Trish
    My Grow Area
    Windowsill
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    232
    Recipes
    1

    Question Misnomer? Pot. Paradise Beauty 'Golden Angel'

    Name:  DSCF1463 (640x480).jpg
Views: 1878
Size:  216.9 KB

    I have really enjoyed this little miniature catt hybrid, but I'm having trouble with its ID. It came with a type-written tag that looks proper, but neither Orchidwiz nor RHS recognize the name--Potinara Paradise Beauty 'Golden Angel'.

    I have found other pictures on the internet (even current vender listings) that seem to be clones of my flower with the same label, so I'm not the only one who has this problem. I have toyed with mispellings and even spanish translations. Could it be Rth. Chiquita del Paraiso?? It's a bit of a tortured translation, but I suppose if it was registered in a spanish-speaking country, cloned somewhere in Asia and sent back to the U.S. . . . I know, I'm grasping at straws. Just seems so odd that it would have such a proper-looking, but meaningless name. Any ideas?

  2. #2
    Brutal_Dreamer's Avatar
    Brutal_Dreamer is offline Dreaming with my eyes open...
    Real Name
    Bruce Brown
    My Grow Area
    Greenhouse
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Cattleyas & Slippers
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    34,003
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    No idea on the name, but I like your way of thinking regarding the research. It is a pretty cattleya. Hopefully someone else has it blooming now and will see this and let you know the 'most' correct name.

    cheers,
    BD

  3. #3
    pavel's Avatar
    pavel is offline change is the only constant
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    whatever will bloom
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    8,643
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    Looks like quite a nice catt. The dark purple in the lip contrasts nicely with the yellow of the flowers.

  4. #4
    mauraec's Avatar
    mauraec is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Maura Caffrey
    My Grow Area
    Outside 24/7
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Paphiopedilum lowii
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Englewood, FL
    Posts
    3,092
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    Trish - I've run across this issue a number of times - you're lucky to have a clue from the tag, anyway. As you probably know, Potinaras are now, by and large, called Rhyncolaeliacattleyas (I think that's the correct spelling), or Rlc.

    Anyway, I looked up the name on OWiz and yes, you're right - no registration or entry there for Paradise Beauty; however, there ARE two others named Paradise Rose and Paradise Ruby, which have been registered by a Hawaiian nursery, so maybe that's another clue? Take a look - they aren't as pretty as yours, but they're very much alike in other ways. Good luck!

  5. #5
    Cjcorner's Avatar
    Cjcorner is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Connie
    My Grow Area
    Porch/Patio.
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Mini Vanda, Schombs &Encyclia.
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    West of Tampa, FL
    Posts
    9,139
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    I bought plants from a nursery I later found out were his "made up names". I totally kid you not. I knew the background of the one plant so I was able later to get a name. Others though will now be simply noid's. I'm not suprised this happens with growers like my buddy across town. I hope you find out the real name...it is a day killer when you find out your tag is bad.

  6. #6
    Kassie's Avatar
    Kassie is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Trish
    My Grow Area
    Windowsill
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    232

    Default

    Thanks, Bruce. I hope someone sees it, too. I usually do enjoy a good orchid tag mystery. You have to be part cryptographer, part archaeologist, part taxonomist, part spell checker and part Wheel-of-Fortune contestant to figure out what orchid you are really looking at. My favorite mystery so far was the massively overgrown Encyclia that really didn't look like a cattleya hybrid it claimed to be on a tag someone had tied to a pseudobulb--when I repotted it from it's 4 inch pot into a snug 10 inch pot, I found an old "Epi. floribundum x cordiguera" tag deep in the root ball. I am still trying to figure out what Aer. Pralisan is, though. Who needs CSI or Sudoku when you have orchid tags to decipher?

    Thanks, Pavel. One of my favorite things about this one is that it's not your standard yellow and red, more of a buttercream and port.

    Maura, thanks for your help. I might check with that nursery on the off-chance they are just haven't registered the name yet, but were optimistically tagging. Taxonomy redesignations bewilder me. Like, what sort of weird negotiations went into changing "Miltassia", a perfectly serviceable and elegant combination, into "Bratonia"? Seriously, had we offended the brassia delegation? Were the miltonias in need of a capital infusion?

    Anyway, I bought this plant as part of a mini-catts special (it was a great way to triple my collection in one purchase, but I don't recommend buying orchids 30 at a time). Several of them were Potinaras, and I have since learned by trial and error that potinara /= miniature. I did look at both "Paradises" you mentioned and I do love Toshie Aoki offspring, but I don't have many because I just don't have enough room for tall catts. Most of the other Potinaras in my group turned into Rhyncattleanthe (Rth). Maybe the guarianthe ancestor was responsible for the short stature? That would mean there might be rhyme and reason to redesignation after all? I'm loathe to admit. . .

    The only other tag irregularity in that batch was with "Little Fortune". The name on the tag just seems more appropriately pithy without the "Orquidacea's". This is what my tags look like if that helps solve the mystery.
    Name:  DSCF1533 (640x480).jpg
Views: 1152
Size:  228.2 KB

  7. #7
    Michael Saar is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Michael Saar
    My Grow Area
    Greenhouse
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Bulbophyllum
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Little Rock, AR
    Posts
    364
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    Your only other route of inquiry may be through the vendor. If you can find out who uses the numbering scheme "NN393", etc., to find the breeder or propagator....
    As to made-up names, I have come across one European "propagator" (my designation) who sells (wholesale) a large number of Phalaenopsis hybrids with unregistered and uncoordinated names that in one case I tracked used a previously registered name from the seventies, I believe, for a harlequin-type flower (20 years before the Golden Peoker mutation that allowed harlequins to exist).
    While miniature/compact Cattleyas are often Potinaras, all Potinaras are not compact. The reason your Potinaras (formerly Brassavola x Cattleya x Laelia x Sophronitis) have all changed names is that most of the species involved have been reorganized on the basis of genetic testing. Sophronitis has disappeared as a genus and been reassigned to Cattleyas, many laelias (including L. purpurata) have become Cattleyas, Brassavola digbyana is now Rhyncholaelia digbyana, and so on. The main (but not only) genus involved in making miniature Potinaras is Sophronitis. While the Guarianthes might have had some part in reducing the size of those hybrids, the smallest species is aurantiaca, still about 12" tall.
    Out of curiousity, is Little Fortune a yellow?

  8. #8
    Kassie's Avatar
    Kassie is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Trish
    My Grow Area
    Windowsill
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    232

    Default

    Ha-ha Michael. I should know better than to try to discern "logic" in these changes with my limited knowledge. I keep trying to better understand, but the reclassifications make knowledge a moving target. Thank goodness for OrchidWiz, then. Now when I'm trying to figure out how big that adorable seedling is going to get, at least I can look for the ancestor formerly known as sophronitis as a clue.

    Ironically, the seller was on the east coast and these orchids were drop shipped without return address from Hawaii, so it may take a while to work my way up the chain to an actual propagator.

    Phals seem to be easy targets for fake naming. I have one purchased as a keiki supposedly from a well-respected old time breeder. Sadly, they never registered a Tequila Sunrise? But at least that name looked fishy from the beginning, handwritten and not in proper format, and I only bought it because I liked the color.

    Rth. Orquidacea's Little Fortune is indeed a yellow. This is my 'Dancing Girl':Name:  DSCF1199 (480x640).jpg
Views: 2401
Size:  224.3 KB
    I also have '#15' which has slightly different lip markings.

  9. #9
    Kassie's Avatar
    Kassie is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Trish
    My Grow Area
    Windowsill
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    232

    Default

    I may have just exposed another hole in my knowledge and perhaps more tag irregularities. In order to have a cultivar name, like, oh, say, 'Dancing Girl' or '#15', there has to have been an award, right? I'm not finding any awards for Rth. Orquidacea's Little Fortune.

    I think I'm ready to give up on this mission.

  10. #10
    Michael Saar is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Michael Saar
    My Grow Area
    Greenhouse
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Bulbophyllum
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Little Rock, AR
    Posts
    364
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    An award is not necessary for a plant to have a clonal name; a clonal name is necessary for an award to be issued. Anyone who mericlone's a plant for sale gives it some kind of clonal name, whether a name or number.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Bpl. Golden Peacock 'Orange Beauty'
    By Cjcorner in forum Cattleyas, Vandas, Dendrobiums IN BLOOM
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: December 1st, 2011, 10:12 PM
  2. Bpl. Golden Peacock 'Orange Beauty'
    By gardenguysorchids in forum Cattleyas, Vandas, Dendrobiums IN BLOOM
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: September 11th, 2011, 01:23 PM
  3. Bpl. Golden Peacock 'Orange Beauty'
    By Cjcorner in forum Cattleyas, Vandas, Dendrobiums IN BLOOM
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: August 6th, 2011, 06:46 AM
  4. Dtps. Sin Yuan Golden Beauty
    By mauraec in forum Phalaenopsis, Oncidium, & Intergenerics IN BLOOM
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: June 16th, 2011, 02:09 PM
  5. LC Hwa Yuan Angel "Little Beauty"
    By Molly Taco in forum Cattleyas, Vandas, Dendrobiums IN BLOOM
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: July 16th, 2010, 04:34 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
OrchidTalk --An Orchid Growers Discussion Forum brought to you by River Valley Orchidworks. A World Community where orchid beginners and experts talk about orchids and share tips on their care, cultivation, and propagation.