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Brassolaelia Morning Glory

This is a discussion on Brassolaelia Morning Glory within the Cattleyas, Vandas, Dendrobiums IN BLOOM forums, part of the Orchid Photography category; So pretty - I love the delicacy of the lavender shade....

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  1. #11
    mauraec's Avatar
    mauraec is offline Senior Member
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    So pretty - I love the delicacy of the lavender shade.

  2. #12
    Horst is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halloamey View Post
    Very beautiful !! Nice colors and form, but I am doubtful as to whether it is Morning glory or its hybrid. Morning glory shows much more Brassavola nodosa influence with longer curving petals and a longer tube lip. Whereas many morning glory F1s show a similar form. For eg. Morning glory back crossed to purpurata or even a cross with intermedia.
    Amey,
    What you mean with F1s?
    Sorry but some of the expressions I don't know.
    Second question: Bc. Morning Glory crossed with C. purpurata is still Bc. Morning Glory?

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horst View Post
    Amey,
    What you mean with F1s?
    Sorry but some of the expressions I don't know.
    Second question: Bc. Morning Glory crossed with C. purpurata is still Bc. Morning Glory?
    Horst, F1 means first filial generation, i.e the first generation or direct offspring. So Bc. Morning glory is an F1 of C. purpurata. Now if you self the plant technically it will be Bc. morning glory, but it will not be F1 of C.purpurata, but an F2.

    Your second question is very interesting and there was a long discussion about it at the WOC in Singapore. The answer to that question is YES, as a grex Bc. Morning Glory back crossed to any of its parents is still Bc. Morning glory. As long as the genetic material in the hybrid is from C. purpurata and B. nodosa it will be Bc. morning glory as a grex. So a plant i.e. 50% Purpurata and 50 % nodosa is a Morning glory, but a plant that is 75% Purpurata and 25 Nodosa or 25 % Purpurata and 75% purpurata is also Bc. Morning Glory. But from a horticultural point of view they can and will be given different names, since the characteristics of each will be different. To help visualize it I am attaching pictures from Orchidwiz.

    This is Bc. Morning Glory (C. purpurata x B. nodosa)
    Name:  purpurata.jpg
Views: 1705
Size:  45.6 KB

    This is Bc.Maria Hatney (Bc. Morning glory x C. purpurata)
    Name:  pur.jpg
Views: 925
Size:  42.7 KB

    And this is Bc. Wonder star ( Bc. morning glory x B. nodosa)
    Name:  no.jpg
Views: 870
Size:  36.3 KB

    As a grex for classification all three are Bc. Morning Glory, but horticulturally they are three different plants.

  4. #14
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    Wow lovely, Amey thanks for the info so many variations especially the lip from pale to darker color.

  5. #15
    paphioboy is offline Senior Member
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    Thanks, Amey.. I think my plant would be Maria Hetney.. Sure looks a lot like it...

    The answer to that question is YES, as a grex Bc. Morning Glory back crossed to any of its parents is still Bc. Morning glory. As long as the genetic material in the hybrid is from C. purpurata and B. nodosa it will be Bc. morning glory as a grex.
    This part is interesting but confusing. I understand what you are saying, but I don't see the point of acknowledging several different plants with different genetic backgrounds (different percentages of the parents' genes) as the one grex.

    But from a horticultural point of view they can and will be given different names, since the characteristics of each will be different
    This makes more sense to me, IMHO...

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by paphioboy View Post
    This part is interesting but confusing. I understand what you are saying, but I don't see the point of acknowledging several different plants with different genetic backgrounds (different percentages of the parents' genes) as the one grex.
    Well, all rules the systematicists make do not always make sense On the other hand the percentage composition of a species in a hybrid is purely mathematical and just for our convenience. The real make up cannot to found out without extensive genetic and molecular work. For eg. you can be sure that for the primary hybrid morning glory the percentage of genetic make up is 50% from each parent but when you cross this plant further with say C. purpurata, on paper the offspring will be 75% purpurata but not so in reality. This is because when the plant makes its gametes there is a lot of chromosomal rearrangement and independent assortment. So in reality the 75% purpurata offsprings on paper will be a mixture of offsprings with anywhere between 50% to 75 % purpurata with high probabilities around the mid point say 62% and least probabilities close to the extremes. That is the very reason for the variation we see in complex hybrid siblings or from recrosses with the same parents.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halloamey View Post
    Well, all rules the systematicists make do not always make sense On the other hand the percentage composition of a species in a hybrid is purely mathematical and just for our convenience. The real make up cannot to found out without extensive genetic and molecular work. For eg. you can be sure that for the primary hybrid morning glory the percentage of genetic make up is 50% from each parent but when you cross this plant further with say C. purpurata, on paper the offspring will be 75% purpurata but not so in reality. This is because when the plant makes its gametes there is a lot of chromosomal rearrangement and independent assortment. So in reality the 75% purpurata offsprings on paper will be a mixture of offsprings with anywhere between 50% to 75 % purpurata with high probabilities around the mid point say 62% and least probabilities close to the extremes. That is the very reason for the variation we see in complex hybrid siblings or from recrosses with the same parents.
    Thank you, Amey, for such a concise explanation of the distribution of varying outcomes among the offspring in a particular hybrid!

  8. #18
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    very gorgeus bloom, love it

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