Shop Orchid Care OrchidTalk Orchid Forum Weather Station Links Nursery

Welcome to OrchidTalk Orchid Forums


The Friendliest Orchid Community on the Internet!


  •  » Learn to Repot your Orchids
  •  » Learn Orchid Care Tips and Secrets
  •  » Find the perfect Orchid for your Growing Environment
  •  » Chat with Orchid Growing Professionals

OrchidTalk - "Bringing People Together to Grow Orchids Better!"


Let us help you grow your Orchids better; Join our community today.


YES! I want to register an account for free right now!


Register or Login now to remove this advertisement.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 14 of 14
Like Tree26Likes

Cattleya dolosa alba AM/RHS

This is a discussion on Cattleya dolosa alba AM/RHS within the Cattleyas, Vandas, Dendrobiums IN BLOOM forums, part of the Orchid Photography category; So if the hybridization had occurred by some chance a thousand years ago and the ...

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #11
    Chris in Hamilton's Avatar
    Chris in Hamilton is offline Senior Member
    My Grow Area
    Windowsill
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Dendrobium, Cattleya
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    3,823
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    So if the hybridization had occurred by some chance a thousand years ago and the progeny of that cross interbred naturally to become a plant with its own distinctive characteristics wouldn't that then be a distinct species?

  2. #12
    catttan's Avatar
    catttan is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Yew-Sung
    My Grow Area
    Outside 24/7
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    cattleyas, vandaceous,paphios
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Kedah, Peninsular Malaysia
    Posts
    15,786
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    What a beauty!

  3. #13
    Dorsetman's Avatar
    Dorsetman is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Geoff Hands
    My Grow Area
    Greenhouse
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Cattleya ?
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    England, South coast.
    Posts
    3,139
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    Quote ; There are reasons why examples of a natural hybrid and a man-made hybrid from the same species may differ. The natural hybrid isn't just the first generation cross in most cases.

    Well said, and I must say I have never heard that before, nor thought of it myself . But it is so obviously right. The next time I am asked about this, I shall quote your words.

    ---------- Post Merged at 01:01 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris in Hamilton View Post
    So if the hybridization had occurred by some chance a thousand years ago and the progeny of that cross interbred naturally to become a plant with its own distinctive characteristics wouldn't that then be a distinct species?
    A very clever question - I'll bet that would floor most biologists.

  4. #14
    PaphMadMan is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Kirk
    My Grow Area
    Under Lights
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Paphiopedilum
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Madison, Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,463
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris in Hamilton View Post
    So if the hybridization had occurred by some chance a thousand years ago and the progeny of that cross interbred naturally to become a plant with its own distinctive characteristics wouldn't that then be a distinct species?
    Yes, eventually, understanding that a species is whatever is defined as such by valid publication, and generally accepted over time. It could just as easily be considered a variety of one species or the other. There is no set number of generations or years, it could potentially be a shorter time or much longer. There is no set amount of difference that constitutes a new species vs. variety. It would have to be a stable breeding population no longer showing segregation of characteristics of the original species, and it would have to be effectively reproductively isolated from both original species. If it wasn't reproductively isolated by distance or biology, it could be more a case of 2 species blending into 1, or having a permanent zone of introgression (natural hybrid population) between them.

    ---------- Post Merged at 08:24 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorsetman View Post
    Quote ; There are reasons why examples of a natural hybrid and a man-made hybrid from the same species may differ. The natural hybrid isn't just the first generation cross in most cases.

    Well said, and I must say I have never heard that before, nor thought of it myself . But it is so obviously right. The next time I am asked about this, I shall quote your words.

    ---------- Post Merged at 01:01 AM ----------

    A very clever question - I'll bet that would floor most biologists.
    Thanks Geoff, but I am sure the reasons for differences between natural hybrid populations and man-made hybrids are not original thoughts with me. Still, it is fun to know I can make an experienced grower think in a new direction.

    And as far as the issue of when a new species evolves from a hybrid population flooring biologists (like me, by educational background), I'm sure many would give an answer similar to the one I gave Chris. Most biologists are quite comfortable with the concept that species is a fluid concept with no firm boundaries, and there is often an arbitrary aspect to where we draw the line.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Similar Threads

  1. Cattleya Beautiful Nicole (Cattleya warscewiczii v. alba x Bc. Daffodil)
    By stateless in forum Cattleyas, Vandas, Dendrobiums IN BLOOM
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: November 15th, 2012, 02:46 PM
  2. Cattleya walkeriana var, alba 'Pendetive x Cattleya Ruth Gee
    By DEC in forum Cattleyas, Vandas, Dendrobiums IN BLOOM
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: August 16th, 2012, 05:35 PM
  3. Cattleya walkeriana var. alba 'Pendentive' x Cattleya Ruth Gee
    By DEC in forum Cattleyas, Vandas, Dendrobiums IN BLOOM
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: September 28th, 2011, 10:04 PM
  4. Cattleya walkeriana (v. semi alba 'H & R' x v. alba 'Pendentive' AMAOS)
    By nora_cy_lee in forum Cattleyas, Vandas, Dendrobiums IN BLOOM
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: February 9th, 2010, 06:47 AM
  5. Cattleya labiata v. alba
    By orcoholic in forum Cattleyas, Vandas, Dendrobiums IN BLOOM
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: November 9th, 2009, 08:32 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
OrchidTalk --An Orchid Growers Discussion Forum brought to you by River Valley Orchidworks. A World Community where orchid beginners and experts talk about orchids and share tips on their care, cultivation, and propagation.