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  • 3 Post By Dorsetman
  • 1 Post By Arne

Laelia autumnalis , not gouldiana - the proof ?

This is a discussion on Laelia autumnalis , not gouldiana - the proof ? within the Cattleyas, Vandas, Dendrobiums IN BLOOM forums, part of the Orchid Photography category; Recently - in the last couple of weeks I posted pics of my plant, with ...

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  1. #1
    Dorsetman's Avatar
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    Default Laelia autumnalis , not gouldiana - the proof ?

    Name:  L.autumnalis-proof.jpg
Views: 85
Size:  68.6 KB

    Recently - in the last couple of weeks I posted pics of my plant, with two spikes and a nice flower count, and a couple of members thought that I had got the name wrong, and my plant is not autumnalis , but gouldii.
    Being aware of the problem I had checked it carefully, before I posted, but since I take knowledgable members views seriously, I thought - hey - maybe a senior moment, and I had confused them after all.
    So I have been back and checked. here is what IOSPE says : L gouldiana and L autumnalis var gouldiana are certainly different although at first glance they appear the same. L goudiana has brighter colored flowers and a different lip shape but what sets the 2 species apart the most is the 3 calli of the lip. On L gouldiana the three calli are actually a flat, 3 striped raised plain and in L autumnalis the three calli are three raised ridge lines.

    Can you agree that my pic shows three raised ridge lines ? Or does it look flat to you ?
    It looks like ridge lines to me - so autumnalis it is.

    I shall be interested to hear your views after further consideration and this better ( for thse purposes) pic.

    Btw, I could not find my recent posting to add this.

  2. #2
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    Default

    One, two, three. They look raised to me.
    Posted via Mobile Device

  3. #3
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    I see three raised ridges, so I think you are right Geoff.

    It is just the overall flower shape which makes me see gouldiana in your previous post but I must be wrong then. That means that some clones of autumnalis may be different from the ones I have seen and really look like gouldiana.

  4. #4
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    A possibility which has occurred to me , in the past, with controversial names, is that when we first saw - and maybe grew, a particular orchid, it was wrongly named, andwe never thought to challenge. So we havetgat orchid in our mind with a “known” ,”must tbe true” label mentally attached...

    In one case, an orchid I saw in the wild - at the top of the highestt hill in Thailand (Doi Inthanon - 8500 feet ) I named it and knew it as Coelogyne ochracea. I have been there several times, and have been told that it is C. Nitida ( Kew say that ochracea is not a valid name), and since that last visit have been told t that it is C.corymbosa, ssp. chiangmaiensis .
    Btw, I called it ochracea because I bought it , so named. The nursery I bought it from -50 years ago,still sell the same plant under the same name. Plenty of room for argument here.....

  5. #5
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    I've had a magnified look at the pics I have of gouldiana but none of which can I make out if the ribs are raise as in your pic.
    There are extra lines in between the ribs (as in yours) but the rib markings are near exact, mine does have a dose of spotting in the lip also, can't say with other plant, can't find pics. Can't tell if this is a normal specie variation of not.

    Pagina nueva 1

    This Mexican website seems to be very good & shows both gouldiana & autumnalis in magnificent pics (in nature as well I think) shows quite clearly to me the differences. One thing I have also found in some pics is the 2 or 3 ribs in the lip, most/all autumnalis pics show 3 but the centre one is near flat, nowhere near as pronounced as the gouldiana flower pics. Some small rise of that rib in some pics of said autumnalis flowers.

    I hope the weblink is allowable, I'm using it because of the discussion. It is, I believe a great reference site for these Laelia species.
    Last edited by Roy; January 2nd, 2019 at 07:30 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy View Post
    I've had a magnified look at the pics I have of gouldiana but none of which can I make out if the ribs are raise as in your pic.
    There are extra lines in between the ribs (as in yours) but the rib markings are near exact, mine does have a dose of spotting in the lip also, can't say with other plant, can't find pics. Can't tell if this is a normal specie variation of not.

    Pagina nueva 1

    This Mexican website seems to be very good & shows both gouldiana & autumnalis in magnificent pics (in nature as well I think) shows quite clearly to me the differences. One thing I have also found in some pics is the 2 or 3 ribs in the lip, most/all autumnalis pics show 3 but the centre one is near flat, nowhere near as pronounced as the gouldiana flower pics. Some small rise of that rib in some pics of said autumnalis flowers.

    I hope the weblink is allowable, I'm using it because of the discussion. It is, I believe a great reference site for these Laelia species.
    The link says I don't have permission.

  7. #7
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    Ok, that's strange, anyone else tried it ?? I have had that with some sites myself though.

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    I tried right now and it worked. It seems to be a good site.
    Posted via Mobile Device

  9. #9
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    The site worked for me at the third attempt. I find 24 pics, in eight rows of three, and then one large pic- which is of autumnalis, and the ridges are clearly seen, just like in my plant.

  10. #10
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    Default Name doubt

    Not sure that the lip ribs can be used as conclusive evidence. From the Mex site & a post elsewhere, autumnalis, pic named & another Gouldiana with the 3 ribs standing proud. They seem to vary between clones. This deeper colour forms I would think are all Gouldiana. Looking at IOSPE pics & I think the colour of the flowers are completely incorrect, nowhere are they those colours anywhere.
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