Shop Orchid Care OrchidTalk Orchid Forum Weather Station Links Nursery

Welcome to OrchidTalk Orchid Forums


The Friendliest Orchid Community on the Internet!


  •  » Learn to Repot your Orchids
  •  » Learn Orchid Care Tips and Secrets
  •  » Find the perfect Orchid for your Growing Environment
  •  » Chat with Orchid Growing Professionals

OrchidTalk - "Bringing People Together to Grow Orchids Better!"


Let us help you grow your Orchids better; Join our community today.


YES! I want to register an account for free right now!


Register or Login now to remove this advertisement.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 21

What to do with pod?

This is a discussion on What to do with pod? within the Flasking Equipment & Technique forums, part of the Orchid Propagation category; Good luck with the baby-making Val and Aaron... imagine you two are helping with the ...

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #11
    bench72's Avatar
    bench72 is offline Moderator
    Real Name
    Tim
    My Grow Area
    Porch/Patio.
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Paphiopedilums
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    5,480
    Member's Country Flag
    Recipes
    1

    Default

    Good luck with the baby-making Val and Aaron... imagine you two are helping with the survival of this species! (Think Big!)

  2. #12
    ATester's Avatar
    ATester is offline Minster of Silly Flasking
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Rollinsford, NH
    Posts
    475

    Default Masd Pod

    So the news, so far I don't see anything, but that doeasn't mean anything yet because the seeds are just sooooooooo darned tiny. And I thought Epidendrum, Laelia and Encyclia seeds were small...these guy were the tiniest ever. I remember it took about a month before I even started seeing green in the embryos for the others, it has been about three weeks for these guys, so it getting close to the point where I break out the magnifying glass.

  3. #13
    Piper's Avatar
    Piper is offline Hangs
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    7,068

    Default

    Hi Aaron,

    I'm surprised you didn't do green pod flasking. Is that how you did your other flasks? I was looking at the timing for green pods on my Catts. I thought it was easier (because the seed is sterile) and more reliable.

    By the way, Dartmouth on Thurs of Fri, if you can make it!

    Julie

  4. #14
    ATester's Avatar
    ATester is offline Minster of Silly Flasking
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Rollinsford, NH
    Posts
    475

    Default Masd Pod

    The reason why we went with dry seed was due to the possibility of mold and mildew getting a hold in transit. Lots of humidity trapped in a zip lock bag for even a couple days (sent by conventional mail) would have spelled disaster.

    The last series of flasks I did were from dry seed from a venerable supplier of orchid seed. They are doing great (but oh so slooooooooooooooow), I wonder if they will actually be ready for compote by this November, a year after they were started!

    Julie, as for a trip to Dartmouth unfortunatly I will have to pass it up, I have some classes scheduled that are required (I tried). But, Kirstie and I are trying to plan a trip if you're interested, I'm thinking mid August.

  5. #15
    Piper's Avatar
    Piper is offline Hangs
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    7,068

    Default

    Your reasoning for the dry seed makes sense, Aaron. I'll still plan on green pod harvest. But the pod on the Gaskelliana had some sort of weirdness 4-6 weeks back. There was a dark reddish-brown spot that seemed to puncture the pod. It oozed a red goo (quite gross!) I saw no signs of bugs, so I rubbed everything down with peroxide and cinnamon. It seems fine now, but you might want to assume those seeds are not sterile.

    I think I'm looking at Sept for pod readiness.

    Paph orchid sex did't take the first try (Hoa's Paul Parks x my phil from Diane.) I've enough pollen to try again on the third and final bloom that has just opened.

    Oh, the Dartmouth trip is pushed a week to next Thurs or Fri because of busy schedules, so you're both still welcome to come up. August is good too!

    Julie

  6. #16
    montanum is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    29

    Default

    Hi All,
    Thought I'd jump in and share my experience with greenpod vs dry seed.

    I have shipped greenpods successfully when necessary. I used screw cap test tubes that I "borrowed" from a college's lab dept. They were maybe 3/4in diameter and the better ones were 4-5 inches tall. I was shipping Cyp pods, which are large compared to masDs so find what you can to fit your purpose. Then you wait for the appropriate date, clip the pod stem a ways down. Stuff a bit of paper towel in the test tube bottom and pour water in, then dump out the excess that is not absorbed. Cut the stem to the correct length so that the capsule fits to the top of the cap and ship it. This keeps moisture off the pod itself, but keeps the stem watered for survival. I sent priority (2-3 days) and those arrived in perfect shape; however, those airmailed to the EU (10 days!) did not fare well. Fungus got a grip after 4 or 5 days, I guess. We're still working out the details for greenpod NA-EU shipments.

    As for arguments for and against "easiness": Greenpod is inherently more stressful on the sower. You HAVE to get it right the first time. If you cut open the pod and then drop it, it's dead. It's much faster though! You can do many greenpods in the time that you can do one drypod flask. It is sometimes the only option with some difficult-to-germinate species.

    Drypod is no/low stress. If you stick your finger in the seed, no big deal: bleach kills everything. If the seed blows away, no big deal, get a paper and clean it up: bleach will take care of the rest. However, it is messier, more waiting and sometimes hard to tell the right bleaching times. "Rinsing" is also difficult. I use H2O2 since it neutralizes the NaOCl (by releasing H2, Cl2 and H20, I think) and is mostly benign to seed.

    Other opinions?

    Best,
    Ross

  7. #17
    Piper's Avatar
    Piper is offline Hangs
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    7,068

    Default

    Hi Ross,

    Good post! What guidelines can you suggest for harvesting the green pod. Color changes, pod shrinkage, etc.? Time estimates are so variable. How do you judge the ideal time to remove the pod? And how quickly should the seeds be sown after removal?

    Julie

  8. #18
    montanum is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    29

    Default Greenpod times

    Hi Julie,
    Your second question is easy. Greenpod sowing should be done ASAP after collection. However, if you sow one pod and see that it was underripe, placing the rest of the pods in a small vase (like a shot glass) with water for a week will help to ripen the pods more. You just risk the capsule going bad the longer you wait.

    Your first question, is much more difficult. To answer it properly, one could write a 10 volume set. The fact is that there is no good way to easily judge the ideal time period to sow greenpods. There are no good physical changes to look for to see when a capsule is ready for greenpod sowing, unless you can tell that inside the capsule the embryos just went from 4 to 8 cells. For example, the genus I play with is Cypripedium. There are 45ish species of Cypripedium. Cyp montanum is ready in about 5-6weeks, calceolus is ready in 6 weeks, kentuckiense is ready in 8-9weeks. Cyp formosanum 9-10 I think. Etc. Each of these was found using TRIAL and ERROR. Mostly Error.

    Now comes the bad part: the variables.

    It of course matters what your elevation is, your zone, your rainfall, your cloudy days, your hot days, soil temperature... And not just the averages, each individual year has it's own effects. I was just reading a paper on Cyp candidum about how over a 4 or so year period, 8 weeks was optimal in all but one year in which case the optimal was 6 weeks. I'm looking forward to someone finding a formula (per species of Cyp in my case) into which you plug things like the temperatures for each day and the rainfall that will semiaccurately approximate the greenpod time.

    Now the really bad part: Individuals have different times. Individual populations mature faster or slower than those around the other side of the hill. If that wasn't enough, individual plants have different maturation times, depending on plant size # of flowers, # of fruits, individual access to sunlight and water, etc.

    So you have two options: 1.) Write that 10 volume set using trial and error for each of the 21,000+ species and innumerable hybrids including different scenerios for altitude, heat, rain, etc so that we all can have a hard and fast estimate for every species or 2.) use a friend's estimate and live with the average results. Usually something like "about 6 weeks" is good enough for any hobbiest to achieve modest to good germination

    Fortunately, there are lots of experts out there who have done all the trial and error already just waiting for us to ask. You just have to find them!

    Best,
    Ross

  9. #19
    Piper's Avatar
    Piper is offline Hangs
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    7,068

    Default

    Thanks, Ross!

    I've been speaking with my pal who runs the Dartmouth Greenhouse and she said the first hint of color change (green lightening to yellow) is an indicator, but not to wait, or the pod my spilt on you.

    For the Catts I know it will be 5-6 months. For the Paph, who knows... I was reading 7-15 months depending on conditions.

    It's all a journey!

    Julie

  10. #20
    montanum is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    29

    Default

    Hi Julie,
    With tropical orchids, the greenpod time might have a color change. In hardy orchids, there should be no such change, and if there is, it means you waited too long and the seed is fully mature. I'm guessing that a color change in tropical capsules could similarly indicate that the seed is mature and it then undergoes the hardening off process. I don't know. I only do hardy stuff.

    In Cypripedium, the seed matures at about 6-8 weeks. At 5 weeks, the embryo Starts to develop; so by harvest, the embryo has divided into somewhere around 8 cells, if I recall correctly(?). Then for the last 7 to 4 weeks of maturation, respectively, the seed develops germination inhibitors and a thick seed coat (unlike tropicals). The germination inhibitors help keep the seed from germinating in November, in which case winter could kill the tiny protocorm, and the seed coat keeps the seed protected otherwise. The freeze/thaw of spring cracks the coat and the seed germinates. It is, thus, very important to sow at the right time or both of these will stop greenpod germination.

    Can anyone share the phases of tropical seed maturation?

    Best,
    Ross

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
OrchidTalk --An Orchid Growers Discussion Forum brought to you by River Valley Orchidworks. A World Community where orchid beginners and experts talk about orchids and share tips on their care, cultivation, and propagation.