Shop Orchid Care OrchidTalk Orchid Forum Weather Station Links Nursery

Welcome to OrchidTalk Orchid Forums


The Friendliest Orchid Community on the Internet!


  •  » Learn to Repot your Orchids
  •  » Learn Orchid Care Tips and Secrets
  •  » Find the perfect Orchid for your Growing Environment
  •  » Chat with Orchid Growing Professionals

OrchidTalk - "Bringing People Together to Grow Orchids Better!"


Let us help you grow your Orchids better; Join our community today.


YES! I want to register an account for free right now!


Register or Login now to remove this advertisement.

Results 1 to 6 of 6

Hybrids & Species

This is a discussion on Hybrids & Species within the General Orchid Culture forums, part of the Orchid Culture category; I was just wondering: when species make accidental or natural hybrids in the wild, then ...

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    dsm's Avatar
    dsm
    dsm is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Denise
    My Grow Area
    On a Windowsill.
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Phal, Vanda, Oncidium, Dendi
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    338
    Member's Country Flag
    Recipes
    1

    Default Hybrids & Species

    I was just wondering: when species make accidental or natural hybrids in the wild, then those hybrids would only exist in the zones where the species mingle, and they would not be reproducing themselves, or they would form a new species, right? Or all three would be considered variations of one species, right? So a natural hybrid would appear and disappear haphazardly over time?

    In the human world, an artificial hybrid would exist only so long as that particular cross was being nurtured, right?

    So, are there any figures on the longevity, as a group, of particular hybrids, especially the artificial ones?

  2. #2
    clintdawley's Avatar
    clintdawley is offline Wrapped in metal..wrapped in ivy...
    Real Name
    Clint M. Dawley
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Cattleya Alliance
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas
    Posts
    2,743
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    Okay...you are right that natural hybrids occur only where the species co-exist. They are indicated by an "x" before the name. For example:

    Cattleya xguatemalensis is a naturally occuring hybrid between C. aurantiaca and C. skinneri. This plant would not be considered a species, but a natural hybrid. Species evolve over time and aren't created by sexual reproduction.

    A man made hybrid could exist forever, theoretically as long as it was mericloned, etc. Who knows? Maybe one day we'll have an Orchid DNA bank or something.

  3. #3
    dsm's Avatar
    dsm
    dsm is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Denise
    My Grow Area
    On a Windowsill.
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Phal, Vanda, Oncidium, Dendi
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    338
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    It's a little confusing. The AOS has something like a registry, but with so many species to start from, I wonder how accurately it could track new crosses...

  4. #4
    wetfeet101b's Avatar
    wetfeet101b is offline It's not dead! It's just permanently dormant.
    Real Name
    John
    My Grow Area
    Greenhouse
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Cattleya, Cymbidium
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Riverside, CA
    Posts
    1,332
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dsm View Post
    It's a little confusing. The AOS has something like a registry, but with so many species to start from, I wonder how accurately it could track new crosses...
    New crosses are officially registered with the Royal Horticultural Society. Even the AOS defers to the RHS when it comes to determining if a cross is really new or if someone already previously registered it.

    However, the RHS only contains crosses that were voluntarily registered with them. For every officially registered cross, there could be dozens of unregistered crosses - specially in countries that do not recognize the RHS as THE authority in orchid cross registration.

    With regards to artificial crosses and their longevity, it all comes down to popularity and the resulting demand.
    A hybrid that is very popular will most likely be in high demand, thus commercial growers will be continuously propagating them to satisfy the demand.
    A hybrid that did not hit the market's fancy could disappear in as quickly as one or two plant generations. But if the cross is officially registered with the RHS, then the plant is recorded for prosperity and if someone else attempts to cross the same parents, it will just resurrect the hybrid.

  5. #5
    bench72's Avatar
    bench72 is offline Moderator
    Real Name
    Tim
    My Grow Area
    Porch/Patio.
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Paphiopedilums
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    5,480
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    some Paph primary crosses, ie between two species, are still grown today. e.g Paph Leeanum which is a cross between Paph insigne and Paph spicerianum registered with the RHS in 1884 is still a very popular plant in cultivation because it is just the easiest plant to grow... and pretty to look at too.

  6. #6
    Mahon's Avatar
    Mahon is offline Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Sarasota, Florida
    Posts
    448

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dsm View Post
    I was just wondering: when species make accidental or natural hybrids in the wild, then those hybrids would only exist in the zones where the species mingle, and they would not be reproducing themselves, or they would form a new species, right?
    A natural hybrid is when two species with overlapping or close-proximity distribution are crossed, and we have a definite or good idea on what the parents are. They never turn into a new species, but are denoted by an 'x', followed by a lowercase, italicized epithet. I don't know if some of these natural hybrids (like Cattleya xguatemalensis) reproduce themselves naturally. If that were the case, then some of these natural hybrids could be considered an actual species. Take the new species Pteroglossaspis potsii in Citrus County, FL, for example. This plant is clearly a natural hybrid, but Brown believes it is a distinct species because it has reproduced itself willingly, with no nearby populations of Eulophia alta. There were a few Pteroglossaspis ecristata found nearby, which would give rise on one of the parents. Brown is also a major splitter, in which Luer and others disagree with some of the work.

    Too sum it all up, it goes straight to what a person believes, and who finds it first. It's a debate on what certain things should be considered, vs. what they are to its pollinators. Nature and man go hand in hand with this subject. If a natural hybrid can adapt and reproduce, then some would consider it a species. I personally don't.


    Quote Originally Posted by dsm View Post
    So a natural hybrid would appear and disappear haphazardly over time?
    Some populations do. Many Orchis and Ophrys species (I'm sure there are many others) will have natural hybrids among the populations, and those plants may not appear again.


    Quote Originally Posted by dsm View Post
    In the human world, an artificial hybrid would exist only so long as that particular cross was being nurtured, right?
    Well, if you throw a Dendrobium hybrid from boxstore in the woods, it stands a chance of living. If you have those Spathoglottis hybrids as garden plants, you may just have a few waifs around. They don't necessarily have to be nurtured, just the conditions have to be right. The plant may also get pollinated by bees or wasps, and maybe some of the seeds will sprout. These are not species nor natural hybrids, just plants that survive. It's comparable to any other plant you have growing in the garden that sprout seeds...


    Quote Originally Posted by dsm View Post
    So, are there any figures on the longevity, as a group, of particular hybrids, especially the artificial ones?
    Yes: the plant will live as long as you can keep it alive

    (sorry for the redundancy in my post to other's posts)
    (Cattleya xguatemalensis is definitely a good natural hybrid example!)

    -PM

Similar Threads

  1. Phalaenopsis Hybrids
    By zainal abidin in forum Phalaenopsis, Oncidium, & Intergenerics IN BLOOM
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: December 14th, 2010, 04:42 AM
  2. hybrids
    By raymund_jesus in forum Breeding & Hybridization
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: November 1st, 2009, 07:11 AM
  3. Phalenopsis Hybrids
    By zainal abidin in forum Phalaenopsis, Oncidium, & Intergenerics IN BLOOM
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: July 1st, 2008, 09:25 AM
  4. Den hybrids.
    By uncasteeb in forum Cattleyas, Vandas, Dendrobiums IN BLOOM
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: October 31st, 2005, 04:18 AM
  5. species vs. hybrids
    By Cinderella in forum General Orchid Culture
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: July 10th, 2004, 12:38 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
OrchidTalk --An Orchid Growers Discussion Forum brought to you by River Valley Orchidworks. A World Community where orchid beginners and experts talk about orchids and share tips on their care, cultivation, and propagation.