Shop Orchid Care OrchidTalk Orchid Forum Weather Station Links Nursery

Welcome to OrchidTalk Orchid Forums


The Friendliest Orchid Community on the Internet!


  •  » Learn to Repot your Orchids
  •  » Learn Orchid Care Tips and Secrets
  •  » Find the perfect Orchid for your Growing Environment
  •  » Chat with Orchid Growing Professionals

OrchidTalk - "Bringing People Together to Grow Orchids Better!"


Let us help you grow your Orchids better; Join our community today.


YES! I want to register an account for free right now!


Register or Login now to remove this advertisement.

Results 1 to 7 of 7
Like Tree13Likes
  • 6 Post By tucker85
  • 2 Post By chrisa
  • 1 Post By Lizgeo
  • 3 Post By Halloamey
  • 1 Post By PaphMadMan

Distinction Between Cattelyas

This is a discussion on Distinction Between Cattelyas within the New Growers: Ask the Senior Members forums, part of the New Growers category; Are there distinct characteristics of the blooms within the Cattelya family? When I see a ...

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    chrisa's Avatar
    chrisa is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Chris
    My Grow Area
    Sunroom
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Posts
    299
    Member's Country Flag

    Default Distinction Between Cattelyas

    Are there distinct characteristics of the blooms within the Cattelya family? When I see a cattelya, Lc., Blc, Pot.,etc....they all look like cattelyas to me. Does one ever become so experienced that they can determine the true genus(not sure it that is the right word) just by looking at it? the petals, leaves, etc?

  2. #2
    tucker85's Avatar
    tucker85 is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Jeff Tucker
    My Grow Area
    Porch/Patio.
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Cattleyas, Phalaenopsis, Vanda
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Plantation, Florida
    Posts
    2,446
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    Watching the experts constantly renaming groups and changing categories will give you some sense of how hard it is to place the thousands of orchids into groupings that make sense. It's often not too difficult to tell that a plant is a cattleya by looking at the plant itself. In general cattleyas are sympodial orchids with thick creeping rhizomes (almost like a vine) sending up stems, from the leading point of the rhizome, that swell into water storing psuedobulbs and narrow again where the leaf attaches. They generally protect the buds with a papery sheath. Many of the flowers look like, what we think of as, classic cattleyas but it's not always possible to tell from the flower if it's in the cattleya alliance or not. I think the rhizomes and the pseudobulbs are the best indicators of the alliance but, then again, there are always exceptions.
    Last edited by tucker85; January 4th, 2013 at 10:49 AM.

  3. #3
    chrisa's Avatar
    chrisa is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Chris
    My Grow Area
    Sunroom
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Posts
    299
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    So if I understand you correctly, once you think you have everything figured out the "powers that be" will mix things up just to keep you on your toes.

    I am fairly familiar with the characteristics of the some alliances including phals, oncid., cattelyas, but it is the sub-species(right word?) that confuses me. I would one day like to look at a picture or actual flower and say, "that is a Blc., Lc., Pot., etc." That day may never come, so I'll just enjoy there beauty in the meantime.

  4. #4
    Ryan Young is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    26

    Default

    Most of the Laelias have been reclassified as Cattleya (except the rupiculous types from Brazil) Sophronitis is now Cat. (Some of the bifoliate Catts are now Guarianthe) So a lot of the names will be dropped to simply Cattleya. Any old Brassovola digbyana or glauca crosses (now Rhyncolaelia) will be reclassified as Rhyncholaeliocattleya.
    Short answer is still not really, but more often than not they will be called Cattleyas.
    Posted via Mobile Device

  5. #5
    Lizgeo is offline Senior Member
    My Grow Area
    Outside 24/7.
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    1,236

    Default

    From my experience, which is limited, Blc often has more star shaped flower because Laelia parentage.

  6. #6
    Halloamey's Avatar
    Halloamey is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Amey Bhide
    My Grow Area
    Greenhouse
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Cattleya alliance
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Pune, India
    Posts
    5,363
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisa View Post
    I would one day like to look at a picture or actual flower and say, "that is a Blc., Lc., Pot., etc." That day may never come, so I'll just enjoy there beauty in the meantime.
    I have achieved that nirvana LOL ! Get yourself Orchidwiz encyclopedia and see photos of Primary Cattleya hybrids, with that you will figure out the hereditary influences of individual species on their offspring, then start looking at complex hybrids. Do this for some days and you will be able to tell not just the genus, but also pinpoint the individual species in the ancestry most of the times.

  7. #7
    PaphMadMan is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Kirk
    My Grow Area
    Under Lights
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Paphiopedilum
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Madison, Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,477
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    Where to begin...

    If I was new to orchids I wouldn't bother trying to figure out Blc., Pot., etc. I know a lot of people are holding on to the past, but the name changes in the Cattleya Alliance have mostly been in place for over a decade. Changes are not constant, but will always be ongoing because that is the nature of science. Always our best understanding for now, not forever. There will certainly be more changes eventually, but they definitely won't be going back to the 1990s and earlier names. Learn the current names, which will actually be easier since so many of the ones that look similar are just Cattleya now. And the 2 Rhyncholaelia species are distinctive enough you can usually see them in the hybrids unless they are 3 or more generations back. The Guarianthe species are also usually visible in their hybrids for at least 2 generations if you know what to look for. The same goes for Brassavola, Broughtonia, Encyclia, Prosthechea and others commonly crossed with Cattleya.

    The thing to do is to learn what the species look like, and then start looking at the primary hybrids to see what the combinations look like. OrchidWiz is a very easy way to do that, but a list of species and Google will get you there too. Cattleya was actually a pretty diverse genus even before so many former Laelia and Sophronitis species were merged in, but if you look at all the species you should start to be able to see several distinct groups even within the one genus. A lot of hybrids do tend to look similar because they have been bred to look similar, and some of the more unusual species aren't used as much in hybrids. But you can't begin to tell them apart until you know what the species and genera look like, because you don't know what to look for.

    I have to correct something said in an earlier post. The rupiculous Laelias from Brazil DID switch to Cattleya. It was the mostly Mexican species like Laelia anceps and rubescens that continue to be Laelia, and some former Schomburgkias joined them.

Similar Threads

  1. S - M - L Cattelyas in bloom
    By catttan in forum Cattleyas, Vandas, Dendrobiums IN BLOOM
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: August 24th, 2011, 04:38 AM
  2. A couple of green cattelyas
    By catttan in forum Cattleyas, Vandas, Dendrobiums IN BLOOM
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: July 8th, 2010, 04:53 AM
  3. 4 of my favourite cattelyas
    By catttan in forum Cattleyas, Vandas, Dendrobiums IN BLOOM
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: September 30th, 2009, 03:03 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
OrchidTalk --An Orchid Growers Discussion Forum brought to you by River Valley Orchidworks. A World Community where orchid beginners and experts talk about orchids and share tips on their care, cultivation, and propagation.