Shop Orchid Care OrchidTalk Orchid Forum Weather Station Links Nursery

Welcome to OrchidTalk Orchid Forums


The Friendliest Orchid Community on the Internet!


  •  » Learn to Repot your Orchids
  •  » Learn Orchid Care Tips and Secrets
  •  » Find the perfect Orchid for your Growing Environment
  •  » Chat with Orchid Growing Professionals

OrchidTalk - "Bringing People Together to Grow Orchids Better!"


Let us help you grow your Orchids better; Join our community today.


YES! I want to register an account for free right now!


Register or Login now to remove this advertisement.

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 21 to 28 of 28
Like Tree11Likes

Wasps, Ants etc.

This is a discussion on Wasps, Ants etc. within the Orchid Ailments / The Compost Pile forums, part of the Orchid Culture category; Speaking of checking spelling, actually I meant oxygen/hydrogen bond not water/hydrogen. Violets are easy it's ...

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #21
    sciencegal's Avatar
    sciencegal is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Karin
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    701

    Default

    Speaking of checking spelling, actually I meant oxygen/hydrogen bond not water/hydrogen. Violets are easy it's the streps that are hard. They have to be the most pickiest plants I have. One minute they are perfectly healthy then they totally collapse. Too much water, too little water, temperature too high, humidity too low - I don't know.

  2. #22
    Chris in Hamilton's Avatar
    Chris in Hamilton is offline Senior Member
    My Grow Area
    Windowsill
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Dendrobium, Cattleya
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    3,166
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    I tried to grow Streptocarpus a few times many years ago. They would last a month or two then just fade away. Now, I think the problem was the medium they had been grown in. I remember it would stay very wet (almost mud) then shrink when it dried to the extent that water would just run around the root mass. Then you had to set it in a bowl to water it, then same problem, soggy mess.

  3. #23
    raybark's Avatar
    raybark is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Ray Barkalow
    My Grow Area
    Under Lights
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Oak Island NC
    Posts
    1,063

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris in Hamilton View Post
    I did have problems with peroxide on orchids. I used a 3% solution on Phals a few years ago. It burned the leaves where the new growth was emerging. Left nasty scars on then when they grew out. Wish I'd taken pitures at the time.
    Chris, I would bet that the damage was due to a pathogen that grew in the water left behind after the peroxide instantly decomposed, rather than to the peroxide itself.

    I've been using-, and have become a big proponent of Biosafe Disease Control, and it is hydrogen peroxide that is stabilized so that it stays chemically active until it dries, and there have been absolutely no instances of phytotoxicity with its use on any plant.

  4. #24
    sciencegal's Avatar
    sciencegal is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Karin
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    701

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by raybark View Post
    Chris, I would bet that the damage was due to a pathogen that grew in the water left behind after the peroxide instantly decomposed, rather than to the peroxide itself.

    I've been using-, and have become a big proponent of Biosafe Disease Control, and it is hydrogen peroxide that is stabilized so that it stays chemically active until it dries, and there have been absolutely no instances of phytotoxicity with its use on any plant.
    I'd have to question this. One formulation of Biosafe consists of 5.36% hydrogen peroxide and a very low percentage (1.35%) of peroxyacetic acid. Also called peracetic acid it is a mixture of hydrogen peroxide and acetic acid that is in equilibrium - it helps to keep the hydrogen more stable than if it was only in water. Peracetic acid disintegrates into water, oxygen and carbon dioxide. Hydrogen peroxide disintegrates into water and oxygen.

    There is another Biosafe formulation that is nothing but 0.108% hydrogen peroxide. That one would be non toxic to plant cell walls because there is basically nothing in it. Essentially it is a very expensive bottle of water.

    I could not find any evidence that the hydrogen peroxide in this product is chemically stable until it dries. If it were stable it would not work.

    They state on the product description that the "product uses the rapid oxidative property of peroxygen [another name for hydrogen peroxide] to eliminate bacteria and fungi on contact!" If it rapidly oxidizes it is not chemically stable.

    Both hydrogen peroxide and paracetic acid kill micro-organisms when the extra oxygen molecule is readily released causing oxidation of the cell wall. If it were stabilized then the oxygen would not be released. Both hydrogen peroxide and paracetic acid are corrosive due to the oxidation process. That's how it works. Hydrogen peroxide will disintegrate faster in the presence of catalase which is an enzyme present in living tissue and microorganisms.

    The agriculture industry uses a very high percentage of the two, 11% hydrogen peroxide and 15% peracetic acid, to disinfect fruits and vegetables and other food preparation surfaces as well as medical equipment. Because it degrades into harmless chemicals that it does not need to be rinsed off.

    I would suspect that the higher percentage product would also cause some scarring of very young leaves due to it's oxidative properties. [this formulation is for mixing with water through a hose attachment, therefore making it very dilute]

    The company states that it is "Corrosive. Wear protective eye wear. Do not get in eyes, on skin or on clothing. Wash with soap and water after contact."
    Last edited by sciencegal; July 24th, 2016 at 10:05 AM. Reason: clarification

  5. #25
    Chris in Hamilton's Avatar
    Chris in Hamilton is offline Senior Member
    My Grow Area
    Windowsill
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Dendrobium, Cattleya
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    3,166
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by raybark View Post
    Chris, I would bet that the damage was due to a pathogen that grew in the water left behind after the peroxide instantly decomposed, rather than to the peroxide itself.

    I've been using-, and have become a big proponent of Biosafe Disease Control, and it is hydrogen peroxide that is stabilized so that it stays chemically active until it dries, and there have been absolutely no instances of phytotoxicity with its use on any plant.
    Next time I'm at the hydroponics store I'll look for it. They have a 30% hydrogen peroxide solution that I had bought a bottle of once but never got to use. Had it on the floor of the pantry for about 3 months then decided to try it one day but the bottle was almost empty. Discovered two small punctures near the top. Then I remembered the BBQ fork falling off its hook just after I got the bottle.

  6. #26
    sciencegal's Avatar
    sciencegal is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Karin
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    701

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris in Hamilton View Post
    Next time I'm at the hydroponics store I'll look for it. They have a 30% hydrogen peroxide solution that I had bought a bottle of once but never got to use. Had it on the floor of the pantry for about 3 months then decided to try it one day but the bottle was almost empty. Discovered two small punctures near the top. Then I remembered the BBQ fork falling off its hook just after I got the bottle.
    All you have to do is buy a bottle of 3% at the drug store, dilute it 10 fold then take that and dilute again in half. You will end up with exactly the same thing. You would not want to use 30% on anything.

  7. #27
    Chris in Hamilton's Avatar
    Chris in Hamilton is offline Senior Member
    My Grow Area
    Windowsill
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Dendrobium, Cattleya
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    3,166
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sciencegal View Post
    All you have to do is buy a bottle of 3% at the drug store, dilute it 10 fold then take that and dilute again in half. You will end up with exactly the same thing. You would not want to use 30% on anything.
    I wasn't going to use it straight The plan was to dilute the heck out of it. I use the drugstore stuff but thought I might be able to do the job a bit cheaper. WRONG!

  8. #28
    raybark's Avatar
    raybark is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Ray Barkalow
    My Grow Area
    Under Lights
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Oak Island NC
    Posts
    1,063

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sciencegal View Post
    I'd have to question this. One formulation of Biosafe consists of 5.36% hydrogen peroxide and a very low percentage (1.35%) of peroxyacetic acid. Also called peracetic acid it is a mixture of hydrogen peroxide and acetic acid that is in equilibrium - it helps to keep the hydrogen more stable than if it was only in water. Peracetic acid disintegrates into water, oxygen and carbon dioxide. Hydrogen peroxide disintegrates into water and oxygen.
    Sciencegal - I have been "playing" with H2O2 since the early 1980's at work, having used 50% strength to break down organic additives in inorganic slurries, and later doing some of the "due diligence" when we purchased duPont's manufacturing plants. I think this may be a case where science education and practical application have a bit of a mismatch.

    I may have overstated the "stability" part, so let me rephrase by saying that it stays chemically active until it dries. That is actually how they can get away with using such a small, non-phytotoxic level of peroxide yet still be effective. it is anything but, as you stated, "a very expensive bottle of water." Buy a 3% bottle at the drug store and dilute it to the Biosafe product strength, and that will be your expensive bottle of water. The "trick" is the peroxyacetic acid, which as you correctly stated, stabilizes the H-O bond.

    Biosafe actually sells three different concentrations - one is about 20%, meant for large-scale dilution, the 5% one you mentioned, which comes in a hose end dispenser (RTS - Ready to Spray) that dilutes it as you use it, and the hand-held sp[ray bottle that is already-diluted version (RTU - Ready to Use). The application dilution rates for all are the same.

    As the product contains a peroxide, they are required by law to put those warnings on the package, but I can tell you from experience that in the final diluted concentration, it is effective, yet safe to get on the skin - I keep a spray bottle on hand to wash my hands with when repotting. (And I have bleached my hands with the other two, so I don't recommend that...)

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Similar Threads

  1. Getting rid of ants!
    By tradceci in forum Orchid Ailments / The Compost Pile
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: November 1st, 2011, 05:51 PM
  2. Ants
    By sarahlydear in forum Orchid Ailments / The Compost Pile
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: May 25th, 2011, 02:09 PM
  3. Ants?
    By Alplily NH in forum Orchid Ailments / The Compost Pile
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: April 29th, 2009, 07:55 PM
  4. Getting rid of ants
    By scopinox in forum Orchid Ailments / The Compost Pile
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: February 7th, 2008, 11:06 AM
  5. ants
    By Ferrari in forum General Orchid Culture
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: April 26th, 2006, 07:29 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
OrchidTalk --An Orchid Growers Discussion Forum brought to you by River Valley Orchidworks. A World Community where orchid beginners and experts talk about orchids and share tips on their care, cultivation, and propagation.