Another explanation?

It was brought to my attention this morning that a member we recently had to ban was busying himself trying to discredit us on another forum. While this kind of behavior is typical of such people and most folks just ignore it, some don't, and it really hurt me to read that a few folks were responding to this person and saying things like we were just "exploiting" our members by putting up the orchidBids site.

Well, "exploitation" implies forcing people to do something they wouldn't do if they had a choice, at a detriment to them and an enormous profit to the "exploiters."

Folks, nobody is being *forced* to register or list anything on orchidBids. It exists and serves a function for people who *want* to use it, of their own free will. If you *don't* want to use it, you certainly don't have to, and there are plenty of free places around where you can post your stuff and take the inherent risks yourself.

So why use orchidBids?
Registration on orchidBids costs a dollar. Charging that serves several purposes: it verifies your identity, your address, your minimum legal age, and your ability to enter into legally binding contracts. Since *everybody* who buys, sells, or trades on the orchidBids site *must* go through the verification process to get in, everybody there knows that everybody else there has passed a "credibility test." Maybe that's not important to some people, but it sure is to me, and it *should be* to you if you're going to transact any kind of business online.

What do we see monetarily out of that 1.00 registration?

60 cents, after the payment gateway takes out its transaction fees.

If you begrudge Bruce and me the *sixty cents* we get from your registration, which we then use to maintain the site, well, what can I say: that's really pretty sad. Sixty cents is less than a third the cost of a can of coke out of any vending machine.

What does it cost to list items? Listing costs are based on the initial bid value you give the item when you set up your listing. For items you value up to $25.00, you pay 40 cents to list it. If you have several smaller items which you don't feel would be worth 40 cents to list seperately, group them and sell them as a unit. You *can* upgrade your listing to make it more visible, but at this stage, while the site is still young, there is really no reason to do that. If you choose to do that anyway, yes, there is a minimal charge, depending on what kind of listing upgrade you choose.

What does it cost after you sell an item? End of auction fees are based on the final bid amount that wins the auction. Anything that sells for $14.99 or less does not get charged an end of auction fee. What this means is, for 40 cents, you can list and sell any item that ends up costing the buyer less than $14.99. From what I've seen things here sell for over the past two years, that covers almost everything that's ever been listed on OrchidTalk.

What about trades? There is no end of auction fee if you end up trading your item instead of selling it. Again, if the person listing the trade values it at $25.00 or under, it will cost 40 cents to put up the listing. There are no other charges. Click the "allow trades" checkbox when you set your item up to let other orchidBids members offer you trades.

What about "Wanted Ads?" Putting up a Wanted Ad costs nothing.

So there you have it. Here is the complete orchidBids fee schedule.

And please remember folks, we are running a business, not a soup kitchen. Servers need to be paid for, either through advertising, begging, or fees, and I'd rather not beg. However, if these minimal charges are still too rich for you after considering the value and services you're getting, there are *plenty* of other non-verified places you can go to and do your trading (and remember, trading or exchanging is what it will be: no selling for money is allowed on the garden site everybody knows.)

I hope this post responds to our detractors and answers any questions people might have, but if it doesn't, you can just post in this thread.

And thank you for listening.....

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Louis J. Aszod

A very well presented answer. I'm sorry that Louis felt he had to make such a statement.

Nobody made me come to this site, nobody makes me post to it, nobody makes me look at orchidBids or any of the other sites I use to find orchids for sale or trade. I do these things because I choose to, and so does everyone else here.

RVO is a business, but you don't have to buy their plants to post here. The same is true of orchidBids.

So consider your own experiences here when reading other people's complaints where-ever they are posted.

And remember: sour grapes make bitter WHINE.

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Diane

"NA BEAN DO'N CHAT GUN LAMHAINN"

Well said, Diane.

I read the thread in question and immediately felt the need to say "How old are we, two?" This isn't about RVO, orchidtalk, or orchidbids... it's about the personal issues and character defects showing up of the people who use them. It's like anything else in life...everything is just fine, in fact perfect, provided there isn't a human being around to observe it, judge it, and then mess with it and screw it all up! I too choose to use this forum voluntarily, and would do the same with orchidbids, or any other website, if I chose to, and in fact am grateful for the opportunity.

RVO should not EVER be criticized for doing what all businesses need to do to stay alive...make money, because every single person who has criticized this site would have a need to do the same if it was their business and they had the know-how and/or opportunity to do so. I suspect these people are probably jealous they didn't think of the idea first! And if they truly don't like it, then they certainly don't have to use it. I personally think RVO shouldn't have to explain a thing here to anyone. I personally suspect for the amount of time Louis and Bruce commit to this forum (and to what I'm sure is many people who have benefited and never bought a plant from them), it wouldn't be worth their time in dollars to run this forum, which goes to show (unlike most businesses) that profit isn't their only motivation anyway. And even if it was, as said above, that's what a business is supposed to do and they shouldn't feel ashamed or even feel the slightest need to explain this to anyone. I personally hope the website takes off for them and proves to be a profitable venture. It really is a great idea!

As for the childish antics going on with regards to it: "grow up, get over it, and move on."

-Matt E.

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Mitakuye oyasin.

Diane and Matt - Well said, both of you! I have read the other forums post as well, and felt outraged at what was being said. I do not post often, but I read the posts everyday. I know that Louis would NEVER do anything as preposterous as what was said "over there"!

Louis & Bruce - Thank you for everything you guys do for this forum!


Tracy

Ditto to the above posts , I also read the post and boiled . I am here because I want to be RVO. is the best ! The post over there is a case of a person making a lumpy bed and having to lay in it . Gin

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Never put off until tomorrow what you can avoid all together.

I have visited and posted at numerous orchid forums in the past, and I must say that this forum is by far the nicest, most responsive, and friendliest forum of them all. It may not have the traffic of other forums, but there is, thankfully, not a lot of stupid non-orchid related banter as folks try to be more clever than they really are. I sincerely appreciate the effort and expense Louis and Bruce have put out on this forum and orchidbids, and certainly don't begrudge them any recoupment of their costs. It is a pleasure not bo be bombarded with requests for donations...Thanks guys-

c.

Wow. I really wasn't expecting any kind of response here--thought my post would just sort of linger. The support from you guys really blows me away. Thank you all so much for writing those things! We really do have an exceptional group--many good people with knowledge in different areas--people who don't stoop to the kind of gratuitously vindictive crap I was reading yesterday. You have no idea how much I really appreciate all of you, and how much I have learned from so many of your posts here.

Also many of you *have* registered on orchidBids over the past week, and I suspect a few of you did that who have no intention of buying or selling at all. You guys went ahead anyway, again, I think, as a show of support, and though members aren't listed there and your contribution remains anonymous, know that *I* know who you are, and I'm very grateful.

I want the orchidBids site to be a success also, for everyone who's involved in it. I hope those of you who registered for support's sake will also get the chance to reap some reward for your efforts by finding something posted there that you like and can get a good deal on!

Anyway.... Thank you all again--this is really much appreciated.

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Louis J. Aszod

Well you know, I was curious... and so I went and had a read of the thread that induced this response, and I must admit that I was quite disappointed with the way it turned out. Initially I thought, sure it is just a query on trade legalities but as it progressed...

As with everyone who chose to be here and has chosen to remain, I do so out of my own free will. I get a lot of information from those of you who are here and even more heartfelt enjoyment for the banter.

So, thank you to Bruce and Louis and to the rest of the people here for enriching my life.

Cheers and Best Regards,
Tim

Me too. My curiosity drove me to read that thread. It's totally ...really outrageous.

I want to be here. Not because someone's forcing me! Because I like being here. Why do I like being here? This forum is the best and the friendliest place. So different from the other forums (in the good way, of course). So much I've learned on this forum! I treasure the opportunity to be part of such a great community of orchid enthusiasts here...so, yes, thanks very much, Louis and Bruce for all the great things you've done for this forum (and for making it possible in the first place)!

being here=

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~~~Lily~~~

I got curious too and went looking . Although I go forum hopping (lurking) sometimes, this is still the best place. Thank you Louis and Bruce, without this forum I might have given up growing orchids altogether.