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Another trip through the Orchid Conservatory

This is a discussion on Another trip through the Orchid Conservatory within the Orchids of Other Genera IN BLOOM forums, part of the Orchid Photography category; Originally Posted by Dorsetman Number 5 is not Paph villosum , it is not even ...

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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorsetman View Post
    Number 5 is not Paph villosum , it is not even a paph - its a Phrag - a hybrid, I can have a stab at the grex, but something like a schlimii cross I'd guess - Cardinale is the only one IO know really well, and it could be that.

    The next one down - the paph in bud - that could be villosum or any one of a dozen other species too......
    Not my i.d. this time - on no. 5, that is. The only phrags I can really recognize are the besseaes, and even then, I couldn't tell a species from a hybrid when there are so many that, to me, look essentially the same. Is there an obvious way to tell a paph from a phrag just by looking at it? I'm quite taken with the several phrags now blooming at the Conservatory - not to grow myself, but to enjoy when I see them.

  2. #12
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    The pics are fantastic Maura! The only One I could have identified accurately is the bulbo.
    Posted via Mobile Device

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mauraec View Post
    Is there an obvious way to tell a paph from a phrag just by looking at it? .
    I once heard the German taxonomic botanist who has written some books about Paphs - Guido Braeme - give a talk, and at the end asked him exactly the same question. His reply - "that's an interesting question - if you find an answer, let me know" . I think it is a lot of tiny points which you recognise when you have looked at a lot of plants, but if one tries to write them down, it takes pages, and there are always exceptions ; for example, I was going to point to the shape of the pouch , particularly the intured rim - very different from a lot of paphs, but then I thought of micranthum and the other chinese paphs all of which are like most phrags in this respect , then I thought of the shape the pouch in general , that is distinct, but takes lot of explaining.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorsetman View Post
    I once heard the German taxonomic botanist who has written some books about Paphs - Guido Braeme - give a talk, and at the end asked him exactly the same question. His reply - "that's an interesting question - if you find an answer, let me know" . I think it is a lot of tiny points which you recognise when you have looked at a lot of plants, but if one tries to write them down, it takes pages, and there are always exceptions ; for example, I was going to point to the shape of the pouch , particularly the intured rim - very different from a lot of paphs, but then I thought of micranthum and the other chinese paphs all of which are like most phrags in this respect , then I thought of the shape the pouch in general , that is distinct, but takes lot of explaining.
    Thank you, Geoff. I went through exactly the same analysis about the pouch, only to find that there are indeed, particularly some hybrids, Chinese paphs that look very much like a phrag - particularly phrag. bessea and schlimii. I've tried looking at the staminodes, which are supposed to be distinctive, but again,a variety of hybrids in both genera fooled me again. Although I have a paph. delenatii, as well as a paph. Lynleigh Koopowitz, both are too young to flower, and too much in shock from the Great October Massacre when I went on vacation - but I have to admit, they're probably also in shock from my extremely amateur care (I've had these since April, and am gratified only that they are still alive, barely). Regardless of the cultivation issue, I realize that I have an involuntary reaction to the Chinese paphs; I don't at all like how they look like helium balloons in the process of deflating. That gut instinct helps a bit in identifying, because I have discovered that, at least for besseaes and schlimiis, it is completely absent - I like them very much, though I am not crazy about the hybrids between them and the longifoliums, wallisiis, and other bizarre "bad hair day" species. I am avoiding learning anything whatsoever about Cypripediums, as a brief glance at them started the confusion all over again, and I'm unlikely ever to have any. In fact, although I have about 35 paphs, I may well find myself without any within a few months - windowsill- and patio-grower that I am. I have read that phrag. cultivation is often best done in s/h, with extremely pure water, and that they need cattleya-type conditions rather than the paphs that lean more toward phal conditions. Well, depending on how far away they get from my south-facing sliding glass doors, they will get whatever conditions I have room for - which is none, to be frank, but hardly an obstacle for someone who has combined retail therapy with orchid fever and impulsive/compulsive behaviors to the tune of 75 or so sort-of growing okay plants.

    I appreciate immensely your story about Guido Braeme - I have inundated myself with harold Koopowitz and come out with a hodge-podge of knowledge that, at this point, is probably more dangerous than useful. But I'm trying. I have managed to spike an angraecum sesquipedale that I massacred in September and, whether it ever actually blooms, am now living a blissful grower's fantasy that I actually cultivated something semi-successfully.

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    You'll have to give me a review of that slipper nursery Maura. It's in my partners hometown and I didn't find out about it until I moved west.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cakedaddy View Post
    You'll have to give me a review of that slipper nursery Maura. It's in my partners hometown and I didn't find out about it until I moved west.
    Posted via Mobile Device
    You got it - I'll pm you about it.

  7. #17
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    #5 is definitely not a paph but a phrag as Geoff mentioned. Some besseae in its heritage it would seem. I really like the half turned petals on that one.



  8. #18
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    Hi Maura, just wanted to put you right on Phrag culture ; yes they will stand a lot of water, unless it gets chilly - even grown in bark and moss it is possible to stand them in a saucer of water all summer long, and they will grow very well indeed if you do that. S/H seems a bit o.t.t.and when I have tried it, they went backwards a bit.
    And as for pure water - do you use an EC meter to measure ionic concentration ? ( You should ! -I'll tell you more if you want). Well I use EC up to about 700mS in the summer on some "greedy feeders" - but the phrag experts use up to 1000 mS = 1 Siemen ! So , need pure water ? forget it .

    Do you know the lovely story about how besseae was discovered ? Quite recently in orchid terms. A party of orchid fanatics ( salt of the earth ! ) were wandering along a path in one of the South American countries, or it may even be driving along a road. It had been travelled a million times before by everyone on the look out for orchids, no one had even seen bessea - and remember it is fiery burning bright in colour. How did our lovely Elizabeth Besse find it ? She answered a call of nature and went behind a bush - and lo and behold.... Is nature not wonderful ?

  9. #19
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    Fantastic shots and very interesting conversation between you and Geoff!

    My Paph. hybrid is growing like a weed, but my Phrag Pearci dropped a bud, seems like Paphs might be easier for me to grow.

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    In this particular case, the color was also an identifier for me. I do not know of any paphs that have that bright red color. (If anyone else does ... do let me know. )


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