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Phragmipedium peruvianum syn. kovachii

This is a discussion on Phragmipedium peruvianum syn. kovachii within the The Outback Terrace Bar forums, part of the Land Plants category; We could call it Phrag Big Purple Puppy Ears (or however that translates to latin)???...

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  1. #31
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    We could call it Phrag Big Purple Puppy Ears (or however that translates to latin)???

  2. #32
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    Default Phrag Big Purple Puppy Ears

    Phragmipedium magnus auris canis pupurea

    I'm sure I didn't decline something right

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATester View Post
    I do see where you're coming from. I think though there is a desire within taxonomy to translate over to latin, or make a latin variant of a name...its just a convention and (taxonomists, don't slay me for this) and sometimes apparently arbitrary. Its kind of like when I look at court documents for work, its repetative, flowery language, thick, and generally makes my eyes roll back into my head while rocking back and forth chanting "Scooby-Dooby-Doo!" (so, yes it can be fun working in the passport office). I often wonder why they don't just simplify the language used in court documentation (look, divorce is difficult enough, why make it more confusing by using SillySpeak (had to pay homage to Orwell's "NewSpeak" from 1984 there)...but it is a hold over from the British Court system that we once used, and apparently has this great tradition behind it (no offense to our friends from the UK). I think the same goes for taxonomy...there is this tradition of Latin-izing everything and erring from that means a break from tadition and causing alot of discomfort among their ilk (am I right?...I am putting my head down like a dog that's about to be beaten here). I believe, and again I could be wrong here, so roll up your newspaper and be prepared to give a swipe at my nose, something new in taxonomy is not accepted until its description has been printed in Latin (or is it just the name...its an interesting subject---to me al least). I am comfortable with the common usage of taxonomy...but I am somewhat resistent to the usage of kovachii. And, as the recent break-up of certain genera have shown...its not THAT difficult to change a name.
    First, I am curious as to why the epithet 'kovachii' is being resisted to be used... the epithet 'peruvianum' is incorrectly applied to the taxon Phrag. kovachii... so why not call it by the name accepted and used?

    As for taxonomy, it is agreed that Latin and Greek (old) are to be applied to taxa. The reason, primarily being, is that they are not biased nor are they prejudiced to any language. Latin is and has been a dead language. It is a very good concept...

    As for generic epithet name changes, it isn't that hard at all... it can also be a uni-specific subgenus being segregated into a uni-specific genus, like Cattleya aurantiaca now named Guarianthe aurantiaca. To change a species epithet, it is quite hard and complicated... everything about taxonomical rules and guidelines can be found in the book 'The International Code of Botanical Nomenclature'.

    -Pat

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by bench72 View Post
    We could call it
    Phrag
    Big Purple Puppy Ears (or however that translates to
    latin
    )???

    *GIGGLING*

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mahon View Post
    To name after a common name would point to irrelevancy of taxa...

    -Pat
    I believe the best answer to that is to point to my irreverancy towards taxonomy. A personal quirk, perhaps... enhanced by my enjoyment of a good debate with intelligent and good humored people.

  6. #36
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    Default yadda yadda yadda

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane View Post
    I believe the best answer to that is to point to my irreverancy towards taxonomy. A personal quirk, perhaps... enhanced by my enjoyment of a good debate with intelligent and good humored people.
    Diane...I have to agree with you on this, and Pat I have thoroughly enjoyed your involvement with this whole discussion. I have to say, this is probably in my top ten favourite posts (and not because I brought this whole thing up either). It brings up alot of interesting points and questions ranging from the ethics of plant collection, taxonomy and I think it has been both serious and (at times) light hearted or at least not treading too hard of people's toes.

    As far as my resistence to kovachii, its just a stance I have after reading to story...and I am not going to attempt to lead a crusade on chaning the plant's name. However, saying that, I have a rough idea of how the whle naming thing works, and if we're stuck with it we're stuck with it There are plenty of other orchids where the same thing has happened and we have accepted it just fine...I think it is just because this is one of the more recent examples. There is a gentleman who was at the orchid sale today that I hold little regard for because I know he has wild collected and openly admits it. It is not a reflection of him as a grower, he knows his stuff and grows fine examples, but it does go against everything I have learned.

    Personal opinions are nothing more than opinions.

    By the way, Pat...would you PM me some info on taxonomy (in general, doesn't just have to be on orchids)...links for the web, whatever..this is something that I find interesting enough to try and delve a little further.

  7. #37
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    Oh No!! Aaron's going over to the dark side!!!

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diane View Post
    Oh No!! Aaron's going over to the dark side!!!
    probably all started with Julie and that damn blue glove....

  9. #39
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    Hey, hey!

    I was into milking the blue glove.

    Sticking the damned thing on his head was Aaron's idea!

    McBlameless for once!

  10. #40
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    Aaron,

    I thought I might just post here in case someone is interested in the Taxonomy information as well... I don't know of any websites that will give you any general information, as the classification structure is different from subtribe to subtribe in Orchidaceae, and differs from taxonomist to taxonomist...

    Though the book 'The International Code of Botanical Nomenclature' is a set of guidelines, a person can learn much from it... in this book, you can find out why and how the names of taxa change, and what are the guidelines of scientific names. This book will further anyone's understanding on names and the classification structure more. It sounds somewhat boring or a waste of time to read, but actually, I find it quite interesting if you ask simple questions like 'why?' or 'how?'...

    Another book is Robert L. Dressler's 'The Orchids'. This is a great book for any level in orchids. It starts off very basic, and then slowly describes the sciences of orchids and their sub-sciences. If anything, I reccomend this book more than the orchid encyclopedias...

    After these books, a person can read about many things pertinent to the systematics of plants, such as Ebryogenesis, Morphogenesis, DNA and its various forms, etc...

    I think these links may help you:

    http://www.ohiou.edu/phylocode/ (Similar to the book 'The International Code of Botanical Nomenclature', this site is about Phylogenetics)

    http://www.ipni.org (The International Plant Names Index is the listing of all taxa and their synonyms contained in Kingdom Plantae)

    There are maybe others, but am not sure as to where they can be located... maybe in Wikipedia, there are articles written about plant taxonomy and their similar sciences.

    -Pat

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