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Peloric Phrag

This is a discussion on Peloric Phrag within the Paphiopedilum, Phragmipedium, Cypripedium IN BLOOM forums, part of the Orchid Photography category; Just happens to be that this one opened yesterday. We'll see if the rest of ...

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  1. #1
    Sue's Avatar
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    Default Peloric Phrag

    Just happens to be that this one opened yesterday. We'll see if the rest of the buds show up pouchless too.

    It's a just-blooming-size Eric Young remake: (Phrag. longifolium 'Joelle' x Phrag. besseae 'Candor Red Radiance' AM/AOS). All the online sources for this cross with this particular parentage state 'colchecine treated', so that might be an indication of a good reason why this one might have turned out peloric; it's probably from the same batch.


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    'colchecine treated',
    That is the chemical used for making 4N plants ?
    Might just be an aberration.
    Time will tell.
    Strangely interesting.

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    that's weird most of the stuff I can find about "colchecine" is that it apparently is used to treat gout... Hmmmm curiouser and curiouser. I did find a few sites that discuss 4n and 3n plants induced by colchecine too. Hmm interesting.

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    From the web...

    On the use of colchicine to induce polyploidy

    Colchicine has been used for many years to induce
    the formation of polyploidy in orchids (and other plants).
    Polyploids are plants that have multiples of genes; that is
    to say, if a plant has n chromosomes, application of
    colchicine may induce a plant to have 2n, or more, chromosomes.
    This causes many plants to express their genes differently;
    in many cases, these expressions are highly desirable.

    Colchicine is a nasty chemical; a materials safety
    data sheet (MSDS) reveals the following:

    Highly toxic; may cause cancer; may cause heritable
    genetic damage; very toxic by inhalation, skin contact, or
    ingestion; possible teratogen; it targets the liver and kidneys,
    and damages the bone marrow, nerves, and cardiovascular system;
    mutagen; the oral human lethal dose is calculated to be 86
    micrograms (thousandths of a milligram) per kilogram body weight by
    one account. This is a nasty, lethal chemical with a rap sheet as long
    as my arm. The list of effects with respect to exposure is impressive
    to this editor (a chemist by training, geologist by insanity); it
    is not suggested that colchicine should be used in the home- a
    laboratory setting with proper attention to all safety recommendations
    as put forth by the source of the colchicine is highly suggested.

    With that in mind, here is a suggested pathway for those
    who understand polyploidy, and want to utilize colchicine to
    induce polyploids. Play with it at your peril.
    Last edited by catfan; July 21st, 2005 at 11:28 AM.

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    Diffrent , not seen a Phrag. do that but have seen it in Phals over the years . just one flower lipless . Usually at the end of the bloom season . Unless you moved close to a toxic waste site . I would not worry if just one bloom . It is a very pretty color . Gin

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    I wonder if we have two different chems here. colchecine and colchicine... Sometimes, at least with drugs one letter can make a HUGE difference.

    Wolf

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    An interesting link as to who does what and why . Lots of reading It even tells why some roots go up and some down . Gin
    http://tidepool.st.usm.edu/crswr/111planthormones.html

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    I'd only seen it with the 'i' before. And Wolf is right, one letter makes a HUGE difference in drugs and chemicals.....

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    Oh – it's with an 'i' in both cases. I had misspelled it the first time because I was being careless. I didn't bother to look it up for correct spelling because it was a chemical I was quite familiar with from my research on chemicals used in flasking, and familiarity breeds carelessness.

    Here's a link that explains what the chemical is, and that it's useful (in very small and well-targeted doses, presumably) in treating gout:

    http://biotech.icmb.utexas.edu/botany/colch.html

    You'll note that we don't actually know why it helps gout, according to this site. The explanation there does serve to give a good explanation of what happens when an appreciable amount of colchicine is added to a mother flask at germination: most of them die, but the few that survive tend to be polyploid, due to the inhibition of mitosis. This also is why you shouldn't go near the stuff if there's any chance you might be the parent of a child anytime soon. Plus an LD-50 of 1.2 mg/kgˆ-1 when applied subcutaneously to mice. That is to say, if it's as toxic to us as to mice, you'd have only a %50 chance of surviving when given a .0288 oz/.8 gram dose under the skin, assuming you weigh 150 lbs/68 kg. That's a pretty good reason not to go messing around with the stuff too.

    Anyhow, who knows? Maybe this one is all funny because it's a 6N or something. On the other hand, the next bud might turn out normal. I'll post a follow-up pic either way.

    Often, apparently, places will add just a little bit of cochicine to a flask: not enough to produce the die-off, and, therefore, not enough to produce polyploids, but certainly enough in order to label the thing as "Colchicine Treated" in order to increase the (perceived) desirability of the product without destroying any of the plants.

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    I guess that both spellings are good for the same substance. Because I googled colchecine and got gout treatments and a link to "colchicine" but with the "i" I get orchids and other plants but no back link to "colchecine" and gout treatments. Weird huh.

    wolf

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