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My first Paphiopedilum

This is a discussion on My first Paphiopedilum within the Paphiopedilum, Phragmipedium, Cypripedium IN BLOOM forums, part of the Orchid Photography category; Originally Posted by mauraec Yew sung - you are so funny! I should think a ...

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  1. #11
    catttan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mauraec View Post
    Yew sung - you are so funny! I should think a Paphiopedilum previously labeled a mere glaucophyllum would be wildly thrilled to be elevated to the status of liemianum; however, perhaps my perception of the imaginary stati accorded Paphs is reversed. In other words - I far prefer liemianums! So sorry yours are sulking - perhaps you should label them rothschildianums??? I would think that the top tier in the paph aristocracy.
    Maybe it was too embarrassed with the new status ..... rothchildianum might just nudge it over the edge to commit harakiri.

  2. #12
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    Well, real belly laughs here. At one time I held the UK National Collection of Paphs and had ( supposedly) examples of most species, including all of this group ; I even had a piece of the original P. chamberlainianum var chamberlainum, which came from the Chamberlain collection ( the guy concerned was part of the UK government - Foreign Secretary, more than a hundred years ago - had a collection housed in 32 different greenhouses, with a staff of goodness knows how many gardeners to look after them.).. which is all by the way.
    The point is that I always puzzled over the differences ; I have sat with plants in flower and read the expert ( Phil Cribb) in his Kew monograph, as to the differences between the several species in the group , and found myself unable to decide whether I was looking at P.victoria -maria, liemanianum, glaucophyllum or whatever ; well, maybe I exaggerate a bit, some plants I was say 90% sure of the label, but a good many, well, the labels were just guesses. One of the Victoria -marias got an award at a World Orchid Conference ( with no quibble about the name ) , but I took the same plant to a British Paph.Society meeting - where all the UK experts gathered, and got 4 different identifications for that very plant.


    by the way - little funny story - Mr Chamberlain was furious at having his name used for the plant, even though he bought the best of the first batch ever imported; the name was given by the famous Fred Sander ( The Orchid King) of Sanders Orchid Hybrid Register fame - amongst other things. he said he used the name because of the twisted cork-screw like petals , which reminded him of Mr Chamberlains moustache and because the Chamberlain family money came from their business of mass producing metal screws.

  3. #13
    mauraec's Avatar
    mauraec is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by catttan View Post
    Maybe it was too embarrassed with the new status ..... rothchildianum might just nudge it over the edge to commit harakiri.
    Oh dear, best to leave it to self-determination, then. That would be an awful mess to clean up, not to mention the shock of coming upon the scene of such excruciating self-destruction. Let's stand by and allow it to reveal its inner Paph-essence.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorsetman View Post
    Well, real belly laughs here. At one time I held the UK National Collection of Paphs and had ( supposedly) examples of most species, including all of this group ; I even had a piece of the original P. chamberlainianum var chamberlainum, which came from the Chamberlain collection ( the guy concerned was part of the UK government - Foreign Secretary, more than a hundred years ago - had a collection housed in 32 different greenhouses, with a staff of goodness knows how many gardeners to look after them.).. which is all by the way.
    The point is that I always puzzled over the differences ; I have sat with plants in flower and read the expert ( Phil Cribb) in his Kew monograph, as to the differences between the several species in the group , and found myself unable to decide whether I was looking at P.victoria -maria, liemanianum, glaucophyllum or whatever ; well, maybe I exaggerate a bit, some plants I was say 90% sure of the label, but a good many, well, the labels were just guesses. One of the Victoria -marias got an award at a World Orchid Conference ( with no quibble about the name ) , but I took the same plant to a British Paph.Society meeting - where all the UK experts gathered, and got 4 different identifications for that very plant.


    by the way - little funny story - Mr Chamberlain was furious at having his name used for the plant, even though he bought the best of the first batch ever imported; the name was given by the famous Fred Sander ( The Orchid King) of Sanders Orchid Hybrid Register fame - amongst other things. he said he used the name because of the twisted cork-screw like petals , which reminded him of Mr Chamberlains moustache and because the Chamberlain family money came from their business of mass producing metal screws.
    I think your first misstep was in relying upon the Hon. Mr. Cribb for his Paph. "expertise." Let us never forget that taxonomy follows egocentrism before any real scientifically-based system. I believe your story about Mr. Chamberlain illustrates that nicely. What is that theory that having the power to name is having the power to possess and control?

  5. #15
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    Great story, Geoff !!! I already had doubts about my glaucophyllum because the leaves were never the 'glaucous' blue-green but rather a pale yellowish green.

  6. #16
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    Paph. glaucophyllum is just the tip of the iceberg.
    When you look at all the species names and what is now a variety as well as primary hybrids and parents, you will quickly find out that it is all over the place.

    Welcome to the magic of Paphs.

  7. #17
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    It now occurs to me that I once prepared - but never quite finished- a review of all of the Sect. Cochlopetallum paphs, using refs from Crib, Braem, and other botanists, plus data from my own plants, and observations from Brit.Paph Soc. members. I'll try and find it ( back-up discs in the loft) dust it down, and see if I can bring it up date.
    There are three ways of getting to the right name on the tag.
    1. Know where the plant comes from. e.g. Moquettianum is agreed to be a Java endemic and some names certainly don't belong to plants from certain localities.
    2. Morphology. this is the normal method and the one which leads to all the arguments ! Because (?) of all the variations around the norm.
    3. Cytological. Do a chromosome count. This is not as difficlt as it sounds, for paphs have very large chromosomes. We used to have a young French member in B.Paph.Soc., who took a minute trimming from a leaf tip, did a squash and rinse, ad then viewed at,I think he said x500, not too difficult if you have normal vision and a student microscope. The range is, I think, and from memory, 38-30 (2n=). Moquettiamum is I think 34 and glaucophyllum is 32 - I would have to look them up to be sure - but that s the sort fhof basis on which speciation can be decided by this route.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorsetman View Post
    It now occurs to me that I once prepared - but never quite finished- a review of all of the Sect. Cochlopetallum paphs, using refs from Crib, Braem, and other botanists, plus data from my own plants, and observations from Brit.Paph Soc. members. I'll try and find it ( back-up discs in the loft) dust it down, and see if I can bring it up date.
    There are three ways of getting to the right name on the tag.
    1. Know where the plant comes from. e.g. Moquettianum is agreed to be a Java endemic and some names certainly don't belong to plants from certain localities.
    2. Morphology. this is the normal method and the one which leads to all the arguments ! Because (?) of all the variations around the norm.
    3. Cytological. Do a chromosome count. This is not as difficlt as it sounds, for paphs have very large chromosomes. We used to have a young French member in B.Paph.Soc., who took a minute trimming from a leaf tip, did a squash and rinse, ad then viewed at,I think he said x500, not too difficult if you have normal vision and a student microscope. The range is, I think, and from memory, 38-30 (2n=). Moquettiamum is I think 34 and glaucophyllum is 32 - I would have to look them up to be sure - but that s the sort fhof basis on which speciation can be decided by this route.
    Dearest of dear old chaps,

    You quite eclipse our bungling efforts to keep a reasonably straight account of the plants that we so love. Were you not so endearingly apparently absent-minded, we all might be terribly impressed but terribly disinterested in your charming rambles through the thin-air elevations of global orchid knowledge as it exists to date. You have travelled a life path quite unlike any other of which I've heard or read, perhaps with the exception of Darwin, or Lewis and Clark.

    More to the point, as one of the great orchid adventurers of our times, and, more particularly, as one of those few who to date has NOT detailed his adventures (and I would add that I expect far better prose and a more entertaining narration than has thus far been available), it is IMPERATIVE that you indeed, go dust off those back-up discs, and whatever else is lurking among your scholarship and memorabilia, and start cataloguing! Hire someone to help - surely KEW has grants for such earnest young scholars.

    In the meantime, I'm going to start slicing leaves off my Paphs to count the chromosomes. Let's see... 1...2...3...is that 4 or are 2 stuck together? I might not be back on OT for weeks!

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