I am afraid I have to leave the glory for other forum members, like Julie and Timmy-O and Jason ... I might have some ideas about these phrag plants but my knowledge about these guys are not very strong/solid as mine regarding paphs. Besides, it is a triple threat, oh dear ... The probability of getting it wrong is just going through the roof according my binary wabbit brain !!! Hehhheehhee! So it is just a sorry excuse for me happily staying on the sideline, watching, reading and learning!!!!