Shop Orchid Care OrchidTalk Orchid Forum Weather Station Links Nursery

Welcome to OrchidTalk Orchid Forums


The Friendliest Orchid Community on the Internet!


  •  » Learn to Repot your Orchids
  •  » Learn Orchid Care Tips and Secrets
  •  » Find the perfect Orchid for your Growing Environment
  •  » Chat with Orchid Growing Professionals

OrchidTalk - "Bringing People Together to Grow Orchids Better!"


Let us help you grow your Orchids better; Join our community today.


YES! I want to register an account for free right now!


Register or Login now to remove this advertisement.

Results 1 to 10 of 10
Like Tree3Likes
  • 2 Post By empiref
  • 1 Post By Kmac

Bottom Heat + New Roots + Heat Mats Alternative.

This is a discussion on Bottom Heat + New Roots + Heat Mats Alternative. within the Semi Hydro / Lights / Greenhouses / Accessories forums, part of the Orchid Culture category; Because of the early spring weather, my orchids have been placed outdoors daily, they receive ...

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    empiref's Avatar
    empiref is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Johnny
    My Grow Area
    Windowsill
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    all.
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lebanon.
    Posts
    101
    Member's Country Flag

    Exclamation Bottom Heat + New Roots + Heat Mats Alternative.

    Because of the early spring weather, my orchids have been placed outdoors daily, they receive direct sunlight from 9 am - 10 am, and they indirect strong light in the outdoor shade from 10 am - 3 pm, and afterwards they are brought indoors.

    I read that bottom heat induces the production of new roots and helps the plant get established faster when an Orchid is placed in a new Medium, in my case S/H (hydroton).

    I have hot water heating system that runs in my apartment, the boiler is below the apartment, and the main hot water pipe runs under my bedroom floor, when the boiler is on (about 4 - 6 hours) each day, the floor where the hot water pipe runs under gets really warm.

    Is it safe, to place the S/H orchid pots on the warm floor as a replacement for heat mats? or will this heat the water in the pots' reservoirs and cause damage to the plants?

    Please help.

    thanks.


  2. #2
    cdayinflorida's Avatar
    cdayinflorida is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Cathy
    My Grow Area
    Greenhouse
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Vandaceous
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Riverview, Florida
    Posts
    5,701
    Member's Country Flag

  3. #3
    Real Name
    Zainal Abidin Bin Othman
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Huntleya, Bollea, Cochleanthes
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Melaka, West Malaysia
    Posts
    12,761
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    Cant help as I have no experience on S/H maybe someone can give their expert opinion.

  4. #4
    k_andreev's Avatar
    k_andreev is offline Senior Member
    My Grow Area
    Greenhouse
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Los angeles,California
    Posts
    1,496
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    if i were you,i would give a try only one pot because i don't know how much "Warm" floor for you.may be too much for the plants.

  5. #5
    empiref's Avatar
    empiref is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Johnny
    My Grow Area
    Windowsill
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    all.
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lebanon.
    Posts
    101
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by k_andreev View Post
    if i were you,i would give a try only one pot because i don't know how much "Warm" floor for you.may be too much for the plants.
    I purchased 2 thermometers, and placed one on the floor while used the second one in an experiment pot with some hydroton and water to mimic the plant pots.

    The water was at room temperature at the beginning of the experiment 13c (55.4F), outside temp 6c (42.8F), temperature on the floor above the main hot water pipe was constant at 35c (95F). After 2 hours of placing the experimental pot on the floor, the temperature of the water rose to a max of 28c (82.4F).

    so there was a rise in the temp of the water inside the pot of 15c (59F).

    what do you think? is this rise beneficial for the orchids that are newly transplanted into S/H?

    Thank you.

  6. #6
    mauraec's Avatar
    mauraec is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Maura Caffrey
    My Grow Area
    Outside 24/7
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Paphiopedilum lowii
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Englewood, FL
    Posts
    3,092
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    I'm NOT an expert in this area, but I wonder about a few things. First, orchids in general need that drop in temp at night in order to induce new growth, spikes, etc - we try to mimic their natural surroundings, and warming their water (and having that heat transferred to the hydroton as a result), especially at so great an amount of temp rise, seems to me to be a little shocking to the entire plant system. I've never used warming mats, but I would think they'd be providing a gentler rise in temperature. S/H aside, I also am concerned that your orchids (and it looks like you've got 3 phals in S/H, one in water, and an oncid of some kind in S/H) might not be getting their minimum preferred temperatures at all. Phals are generally warm-growers, and prefer 65F/18.3C as a night minimum. During the day, they prefer a 15F rise in temps and so on. So, I think your phals might be a tad cold, as is, and then raising the temps so much from below is going to leave them too cold on top and too warm below - in my experience, a recipe for root rot. Oncids can go down to 55F/12.8C at night.

    From your post, I gather that the inside temp of your apt is 55F??? Isn't that a bit chilly for humans, never mind orchids? And you put them outside where it's about 43F and they're in shade (bright, I know) most of the day? Have you had them for a long time in this environment? Maybe they've acclimated to it, but it's really overall pretty cool for orchids - except for the real cool-lovers, like cymbidiums, some masdevallias, miltonias - and it still might be a bit cool for them. And judging by the deep green color of the phal leaves, they're not getting enough light. Phals ARE low-light plants, which is why a bright east-facing window is good for them, but the plants will tell you what's going on, anyway. One of the easiest signs to recognize is deep green leaves (not good for orchids) - very pretty, granted, but generally reserved for houseplants that don't flower.

    Of course, if your plants have been flourishing, ignore all this advice.

    I have gradually transplanted nearly all my orchids, including phals and oncids, into S/H in the past 2 months. Aside from making sure they get the light, temps, nutrition, and water they need, they're on their own to develop roots for S/H purposes. In other words, I'm still growing them the same way I did before, and so far I haven't lost any. Remember though, S/H is not a magic solution - all the other growing requirements apply still, and I still may lose some of my orchids - it just works out that way sometimes. But I'm pretty leery of heating them from the bottom - it's a bit like the equivalent of watering them with fairly hot water.

    Just my own thoughts - your idea about warming mats certainly applies to germinating seeds, so gentle warming from below may help. Good luck and let us know how it turns out!

  7. #7
    empiref's Avatar
    empiref is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Johnny
    My Grow Area
    Windowsill
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    all.
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lebanon.
    Posts
    101
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mauraec View Post
    I'm NOT an expert in this area, but I wonder about a few things. First, orchids in general need that drop in temp at night in order to induce new growth, spikes, etc - we try to mimic their natural surroundings, and warming their water (and having that heat transferred to the hydroton as a result), especially at so great an amount of temp rise, seems to me to be a little shocking to the entire plant system. I've never used warming mats, but I would think they'd be providing a gentler rise in temperature. S/H aside, I also am concerned that your orchids (and it looks like you've got 3 phals in S/H, one in water, and an oncid of some kind in S/H) might not be getting their minimum preferred temperatures at all. Phals are generally warm-growers, and prefer 65F/18.3C as a night minimum. During the day, they prefer a 15F rise in temps and so on. So, I think your phals might be a tad cold, as is, and then raising the temps so much from below is going to leave them too cold on top and too warm below - in my experience, a recipe for root rot. Oncids can go down to 55F/12.8C at night.

    From your post, I gather that the inside temp of your apt is 55F??? Isn't that a bit chilly for humans, never mind orchids? And you put them outside where it's about 43F and they're in shade (bright, I know) most of the day? Have you had them for a long time in this environment? Maybe they've acclimated to it, but it's really overall pretty cool for orchids - except for the real cool-lovers, like cymbidiums, some masdevallias, miltonias - and it still might be a bit cool for them. And judging by the deep green color of the phal leaves, they're not getting enough light. Phals ARE low-light plants, which is why a bright east-facing window is good for them, but the plants will tell you what's going on, anyway. One of the easiest signs to recognize is deep green leaves (not good for orchids) - very pretty, granted, but generally reserved for houseplants that don't flower.

    Of course, if your plants have been flourishing, ignore all this advice.

    I have gradually transplanted nearly all my orchids, including phals and oncids, into S/H in the past 2 months. Aside from making sure they get the light, temps, nutrition, and water they need, they're on their own to develop roots for S/H purposes. In other words, I'm still growing them the same way I did before, and so far I haven't lost any. Remember though, S/H is not a magic solution - all the other growing requirements apply still, and I still may lose some of my orchids - it just works out that way sometimes. But I'm pretty leery of heating them from the bottom - it's a bit like the equivalent of watering them with fairly hot water.

    Just my own thoughts - your idea about warming mats certainly applies to germinating seeds, so gentle warming from below may help. Good luck and let us know how it turns out!
    Maura, thank you fr your time and lengthy reply.

    I so happens that today we're having a snow storm. and I left the heater off in the room where i conducted the experiment, to be able to be accurate with my measurements.

    As for the picture, it was taken in the shade on a sunny day where the temp was 25c.

    Thanks for your help.

  8. #8
    Kmac's Avatar
    Kmac is offline Senior Member
    Real Name
    Kathi
    My Grow Area
    Porch/Patio.
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    How can I pick just one???
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    2,515
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    While Maura is quite right that most orchids need a drop to initiate spiking, I'll add my personal experience. I have used a bottom heat source (a cup-warmer) to help an ailing orchid grow new roots & recover (it was a half-dead warm-growing paphinia, which I realize isn't what you are growing!). My room temp was about 75*F, and I have no idea what the cup-warmer raised it to, but the moist moss it was potted in became warm to the touch. I'm sure though it was less of a range than your water going from 55*F to 82*. Anyway, the setup I used worked like gangbusters, & the orchid bounced back very quickly. Your results may vary...however, if you need to grow new roots, and your maximum is 82*F at the roots, I would think it is OK for a while. If/when the roots are well established, I would think letting them have a temp drop would be good, as Maura says. Whatever you decide, good luck!

  9. #9
    Brutal_Dreamer's Avatar
    Brutal_Dreamer is offline Dreaming with my eyes open...
    Real Name
    Bruce Brown
    My Grow Area
    Greenhouse
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Cattleyas & Slippers
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    34,003
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    Just wanted to say that I love the photo or your orchids.

    cheers,
    BD

  10. #10
    Real Name
    Ryan
    My Grow Area
    Greenhouse
    Favorite Orchid(s)
    Cattleya
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    Posts
    31
    Member's Country Flag

    Default

    There is a direct correlation between temperature and metabolic activity. Applying bottom heat, will encourage cell division.

Similar Threads

  1. Heat from T5 lights?
    By mysbhvn in forum Semi Hydro / Lights / Greenhouses / Accessories
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: January 4th, 2012, 06:09 AM
  2. Inducing Phal spikes w/grow lights & heat mats
    By redphal in forum General Orchid Culture
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: November 26th, 2011, 02:30 PM
  3. seedling heat mats
    By kewpie in forum General Orchid Culture
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: August 17th, 2004, 05:09 PM
  4. Bottom heat for paphs...???
    By dahlia_guy in forum General Orchid Culture
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: July 3rd, 2004, 03:33 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
OrchidTalk --An Orchid Growers Discussion Forum brought to you by River Valley Orchidworks. A World Community where orchid beginners and experts talk about orchids and share tips on their care, cultivation, and propagation.