Hybrids & Species

[dsm]

I was just wondering: when species make accidental or natural hybrids in the wild, then those hybrids would only exist in the zones where the species mingle, and they would not be reproducing themselves, or they would form a new species, right? Or all three would be considered variations of one species, right? So a natural hybrid would appear and disappear haphazardly over time?

In the human world, an artificial hybrid would exist only so long as that particular cross was being nurtured, right?

So, are there any figures on the longevity, as a group, of particular hybrids, especially the artificial ones?

[clintdawley]

Okay...you are right that natural hybrids occur only where the species co-exist. They are indicated by an "x" before the name. For example:

Cattleya xguatemalensis is a naturally occuring hybrid between C. aurantiaca and C. skinneri. This plant would not be considered a species, but a natural hybrid. Species evolve over time and aren't created by sexual reproduction.

A man made hybrid could exist forever, theoretically as long as it was mericloned, etc. Who knows? Maybe one day we'll have an Orchid DNA bank or something.

[dsm]

It's a little confusing. The AOS has something like a registry, but with so many species to start from, I wonder how accurately it could track new crosses...

[wetfeet101b]

It's a little confusing. The AOS has something like a registry, but with so many species to start from, I wonder how accurately it could track new crosses...

New crosses are officially registered with the Royal Horticultural Society. Even the AOS defers to the RHS when it comes to determining if a cross is really new or if someone already previously registered it.

However, the RHS only contains crosses that were voluntarily registered with them. For every officially registered cross, there could be dozens of unregistered crosses - specially in countries that do not recognize the RHS as THE authority in orchid cross registration.

With regards to artificial crosses and their longevity, it all comes down to popularity and the resulting demand.
A hybrid that is very popular will most likely be in high demand, thus commercial growers will be continuously propagating them to satisfy the demand.
A hybrid that did not hit the market's fancy could disappear in as quickly as one or two plant generations. But if the cross is officially registered with the RHS, then the plant is recorded for prosperity and if someone else attempts to cross the same parents, it will just resurrect the hybrid.

[bench72]

some Paph primary crosses, ie between two species, are still grown today. e.g Paph Leeanum which is a cross between Paph insigne and Paph spicerianum registered with the RHS in 1884 is still a very popular plant in cultivation because it is just the easiest plant to grow... and pretty to look at too.

[Mahon]

I was just wondering: when species make accidental or natural hybrids in the wild, then those hybrids would only exist in the zones where the species mingle, and they would not be reproducing themselves, or they would form a new species, right?

A natural hybrid is when two species with overlapping or close-proximity distribution are crossed, and we have a definite or good idea on what the parents are. They never turn into a new species, but are denoted by an 'x', followed by a lowercase, italicized epithet. I don't know if some of these natural hybrids (like Cattleya xguatemalensis) reproduce themselves naturally. If that were the case, then some of these natural hybrids could be considered an actual species. Take the new species Pteroglossaspis potsii in Citrus County, FL, for example. This plant is clearly a natural hybrid, but Brown believes it is a distinct species because it has reproduced itself willingly, with no nearby populations of Eulophia alta. There were a few Pteroglossaspis ecristata found nearby, which would give rise on one of the parents. Brown is also a major splitter, in which Luer and others disagree with some of the work.

Too sum it all up, it goes straight to what a person believes, and who finds it first. It's a debate on what certain things should be considered, vs. what they are to its pollinators. Nature and man go hand in hand with this subject. If a natural hybrid can adapt and reproduce, then some would consider it a species. I personally don't.

So a natural hybrid would appear and disappear haphazardly over time?

Some populations do. Many Orchis and Ophrys species (I'm sure there are many others) will have natural hybrids among the populations, and those plants may not appear again.

In the human world, an artificial hybrid would exist only so long as that particular cross was being nurtured, right?

Well, if you throw a Dendrobium hybrid from boxstore in the woods, it stands a chance of living. If you have those Spathoglottis hybrids as garden plants, you may just have a few waifs around. They don't necessarily have to be nurtured, just the conditions have to be right. The plant may also get pollinated by bees or wasps, and maybe some of the seeds will sprout. These are not species nor natural hybrids, just plants that survive. It's comparable to any other plant you have growing in the garden that sprout seeds...

So, are there any figures on the longevity, as a group, of particular hybrids, especially the artificial ones?

Yes: the plant will live as long as you can keep it alive

(sorry for the redundancy in my post to other's posts)
(Cattleya xguatemalensis is definitely a good natural hybrid example!)

-PM