J and P - The Infamous "Sedenii"?...Answer...

[Heather]

Okay, I just heard back from Frank at Tindara...

"Hi Heather,

The Phrag in question is Eric Young 4N 'Mont Millais'
AM/RHS x schlimii. The reason why this is somewhat rare
is that this particular cross picked up the genes of
schlimii rather than Eric Young. Most of the Phrags in
my greenhouse had an Eric Young parent so this one is
unusual. However, when crossing Phrags or Paphs you
really don't know what you're going to get until it
flowers. If you want I will ask my wife if she wants to
part with it. It is a beauty.

Thanks for the inquiry and I'm pleased that you are
happy with the plants we offer.

My sincere regards,

Frank Coppolino
Tindara Orchids"

[Jmoney]

interesting idea. If it's really that hybrid, then that plant is a 3N--it should have TWO sets of chromosomes from the 4N eric young parent, and one set from the schlimii (which presumably is a regular 2N). One would think that most of the progeny would favor the EY parent because of that.

I found a Cardinale that looks similar...

link

But who really knows?

[Heather]

The pouch was *not* at all that pink! A lighter shade, not so *hot* and a bit yellow in the pouch..Very pale petal pink petals...who knows! Interesting tho!!!

[Jmoney]

yes, it was the lack of any orange in the pouch at all that made it seem that there was no besseae at all in the background...

[Heather]

So he showed me some seedpods - you think he is just unclear? That this is wrong or what???

[Jmoney]

I'm not going to call anyone's integrity into question here...as the man says, strange things do happen in slipper breeding. I just don't see any besseae in that flower, and I think that an Eric Young 4N should be more dominant when crossed to a diploid. Just my opinion. My unsolicited and perhaps unwelcome opinion (I remember the indignant rage that some people had when I once said that most people consider walkeriana alba 'Pendentive' to be NOT the pure species).

[Heather]

Oh! well! does not matter to me unless it *is* something rare I should ask the price of, that's all, IMHO!

[Jmoney]

You know, I came across the real name of the cross (Cape Sunset) and I found some pictures on the web. There seems to be quite a bit of variation out there, from flowers with orangish flowers with obvious besseae influence, to a few really pale ones that barely show any besseae input at all. So I take that back, I guess this could just reflect the extreme end of the spectrum--a plant that is heavily influenced by schlimii. I would have been more convinced if the besseae used in creating the Eric Young were flavum, but I think the 'Mont Millais' AM/RHS clone is a typical to dark EY. But it's a phrag, so go figure. (I can perhaps imagine a tiny bit of besseae influence in the pouch--besseae tends to produce more streamlined pouches while schlimii makes it fatter and 'clunkier', if that makes any sense at all).

[Paphsonly]

In Europe, many people mistake schlimii for Cardinale 'Birchwood', including the Eric Young Orchid Foundation in its early days.

Eric Young 4N 'Mont Millais' AM/RHS x schlimii

is a pot-plant cross made in the Netherlands using parents from the Eric Young brought by someone working now in South Africa. It is made for pot-plant, and the label do not need to be very accurate. Several US growers, some very famous, come over to reload with some of these crosses and others. Big mess sometimes

The plant on the photo is Eric Young 'Maybe Mont Millais' maybe 4N x Cardinale as 'schlimii. We have the same here.

[Paphraguy]

Since it is 'complex" hybrid, there will always be many different variations but I do not see any EY nor even a little hint of bess in that flower, so I still have some doubts.