Stanhopea and Cattleya

[LJA]

Does anyone know if these two have ever been successfully bred together? Stans are in the Epi subtribe so I'm imagining that it's possible. Any ideas?

[peteMc]

I'm way out of my league here, really, but I have done some pretty extensive searches, on and offline, and have never seen anything about a cross like that. acineta, peristeria, coryanthes, others that belong to Stanhopinae, but never a catt.

The Evil Genius or Persistence probably know more....but if it works, sign me up for a seedling

[Sue]

I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen. Stans and their relatives seem to me to be fairly isolated within the Epidendreae tribe. I don't have chromosome counts nearby, but my bet is that the Stanhopeinae won't breed outside their subtribe.

Hmm. I just looked the subtribe up. I've got them classified under the Cymbinieae tribe, along with the Oncidiinae subtribe. I don't remember who to cite on this one, but I put them as only distantly related to Catts.

At any rate, I don't think they'll breed outside their little clutch. Lots of interesting possibilities in the subtribe though! Peristeria x Lueddemannia! Coryanthes x Paphinia! There hasn't been nearly enough hybriding in there, although it's understandable. The hybrids would not be all that appealing to the non-specialist, given their size, growing conditions, and short blooming season.

Hence the need for hobby breeders!

[LJA]

That's disappointing....

This is what I came up with from Dressler,

Family: Orchidaceae
SubFamily: Epidendroideae
Tribe: Maxillarieae
SubTribe: Stanhopeinae

and thought that, since Epicatts are common enough, why not a Stanhocatt?

Am I just being way too simple-minded?

[Sue]

That's disappointing....

This is what I came up with from Dressler,

Family: Orchidaceae
SubFamily: Epidendroideae
Tribe: Maxillarieae
SubTribe: Stanhopeinae

and thought that, since Epicatts are common enough, why not a Stanhocatt?

Is that Dressler from 1988 (or so)? I think he changed around his classification somewhat radically in the 90's sometime. I actually think my classification might be from his more recent book . . . but I could be totally and completely wrong about that.

I've got the Stanhopeinae subtribe under the Cymbinieae tribe, in the Vandoideae subfamily. The Stans have been moved around a few times, I think, by different authors. They're isolated enough that it's understandably unclear where to put them, at least as far as I know.

Even with the classification you've got, however, this would be a cross from different tribes, which rarely happens. By comparison, Epidendrum and Cattleya are, of course, the same subtribe.

Hope that helps.

[LJA]

By comparison, Epidendrum and Cattleya are, of course, the same subtribe

My bad... I was hoping that if they were in the same subfamily there might be a chance.

The Dressler is old--93--so your version is more than likely the more current.

Thanks though..... (I might grab some Stan pollen and try anyway--what the heck, huh?)

Pete, if by some bizare, remote chance this actually takes and produces viable seed, I'll definitely send you a seedling! (It would be one crazy-looking flower though, I'll tell you what....)

[peteMc]

hehe, yeah, probably....a pendant floofy winged catt, snout like a cornucopia...good luck!

pMc

[Jumpluff]

i've heard that c. have a hybrid with laycaste and a hybrid between vanda and cattleya...
so i think nothing is impossible...

[schnozzle]

I don't think I've ever heard of an intertribal hyrbid involving members of the Laeliinae subtribe...or at least I'd be extremely suspicious of one.

Several years ago James Rumrill did register an Oncidium x Galeandra cross to the RHS, which was something like an Oncidiinae and Cymbidiinae intertribal hybrid--but the pictures he provided of the hybrid looked almost exactly like the Oncidium parent to a suspicious degree, and then he claimed that all of the plants were later destroyed in a hurricane. Which is possible, but it means you can't verify anything.

In general, orchids do not breed outside of their subtribe. Some don't even breed with all the members within their subtribe. There are exceptions, but I'd be really surprised (although fascinated) if anyone managed to breed a Cattleya to a Stanophea.

[LJA]

schnozzle, yes, non-verifiable claims are completely useless, and I have to wonder what people who make them (especially when they run against expectations) are trying to accomplish.

I never pursued the Stan - Catt idea here any further, but now that you brought this thread back to life, I'm just going to have to! I still have some Stanhopea pollen in the fridge that PeteMC sent me; tomorrow morning I'm going to try using some of it on a Catt--just for grins.

Have you done much breeding / hybridizing yourself?