What is the most intriguing intergeneric hybrids?

[Azizan]

As in the title, I would like to know what is the most intriguing intergeneric hybrids that you have came across, either in real life or on the internet? For me it would be a hybrid of 4 genus: Vanda x Rhynchostylis x Aerides x Vandopsis and Vanda x Rhynchostylis x Aerides x Renanthera. But both I only saw on the internet. I have not came across 5 genus and more yet. I am only familiar with Vandaceous hybrids so I don't have any idea about other intergeneric hybrids. Have anyone came across 5 genus and more -in-one hybrid?

[PaphMadMan]

There have been 5, 6 or more genera hybrids registered, but I think many of those are officially down to 4 or less now with the reduction in genera in the major breeding groups (Catts, Vanda/Phal, Oncids). Laipenchihara would be one example (Ascocentrum x Doritis x Neofinetia x Rhynchostylis x Vanda) but that would be Yapara now (Phalaenopsis x Rhynchostylis x Vanda). I'll see if I can dig up some more examples and post later.

What intrigues me more are the wide crosses between less closely related or difficult to cross genera: Paphiopedilum x Phragmipedium crosses have been reported but I've never seen plants or photos or other documentation that convinced me, Eurychone x Phalaenopsis, Catasetum x Cymbidium, are some examples.

[Azizan]

Interesting example. Ascocentrum and Neofinetia are now Vanda, Doritis is now Phalaenopsis. I'm still wondering if the taxonomist now classify them based on genetics. I have seen Eurynopsis picture on internet but not good quality picture. I have read about Paphiopedilum x Phragmipedium before. Catasetum x Cymbidium never seen before.

[PaphMadMan]

... I'm still wondering if the taxonomist now classify them based on genetics...

Genetic analysis plays a large part in recent classifications, but is still controversial for some. Neofinetia and Ascocentrum into Vanda is one example. Some of the early attempts especially went too far with too little data then soon had to be revised, and set some attitudes against it. Brazilian Laelia into Sophronitis, and then shortly both into Cattleya is an example there. It appears that hybridization long in the past can set up some particularly difficult situations to sort out, conclusions that don't fit with classical taxonomy at all or complexities that were never anticipated before there was genetic evidence for them. Classification of Cattleya maxima and Cattleya araguaiensis are examples there.

Classical taxonomy started long before evolutionary relationships were even possible to consider, so it isn't surprising that some conflicts arise. Using physical characteristics to classify depends on choosing the right characteristics, that also had to be easily observed in both fresh and preserved specimens. Choosing the right genetic sequences to compare matters too, but there it is possible to accumulate additional data until the sequences are complete.

[paphioboy]

Some of the more intriguing examples that I have seen are actually intrageneric (within the one genus), notably between different sections of the massive genus Bulbophyllum. Some recent hybrids made by Thai growers include beccarii x lobbii, carunculatum x virescens, graveolens x phalaenopsis, graveolens x Elizabeth Ann etc. Some of these can prove to be quite stunning when they bloom, I think.

[PaphMadMan]

Some of the more intriguing examples that I have seen are actually intrageneric (within the one genus), notably between different sections of the massive genus Bulbophyllum. Some recent hybrids made by Thai growers include beccarii x lobbii, carunculatum x virescens, graveolens x phalaenopsis, graveolens x Elizabeth Ann etc. Some of these can prove to be quite stunning when they bloom, I think.

There is another issue to consider with a diverse genus like Dendrobium, or even Paphiopedilum, as just 2 examples. There may me as much or more genetic difference between subgenera or sections within these genera than between genera in a subtribe like the Laeliinae. Classical taxonomy couldn't begin to evaluate actual degree of relatedness in the way genetic analysis can, so taxa like subtribe, genus, subgenus are not really equivalent across tribes or subfamilies. And "crossability" may not be equivalent either. That can make a big difference in what makes a multigeneric hybrid.

[Azizan]

Some of the more intriguing examples that I have seen are actually intrageneric (within the one genus), notably between different sections of the massive genus Bulbophyllum. Some recent hybrids made by Thai growers include beccarii x lobbii, carunculatum x virescens, graveolens x phalaenopsis, graveolens x Elizabeth Ann etc. Some of these can prove to be quite stunning when they bloom, I think.

Interesting, actually I am only familiar with Bulbophyllum phalaenopsis.

---------- Post Merged at 11:16 AM ----------

There is another issue to consider with a diverse genus like Dendrobium, or even Paphiopedilum, as just 2 examples. There may me as much or more genetic difference between subgenera or sections within these genera than between genera in a subtribe like the Laeliinae. Classical taxonomy couldn't begin to evaluate actual degree of relatedness in the way genetic analysis can, so taxa like subtribe, genus, subgenus are not really equivalent across tribes or subfamilies. And "crossability" may not be equivalent either. That can make a big difference in what makes a multigeneric hybrid.

Thank you for your informative feedback!

[Azizan]

Recently, I found that Taiwan breeder made a new unregistered hybrid of Phalaenopsis x Seidenfadenia mitrata. Another interesting hybrid that I came across was Vanda tricolor x Phalaenopsis bellina which is the first intergeneric hybrid for Phalaenopsis bellina.

[catttan]

Recently, I found that Taiwan breeder made a new unregistered hybrid of Phalaenopsis x Seidenfadenia mitrata. Another interesting hybrid that I came across was Vanda tricolor x Phalaenopsis bellina which is the first intergeneric hybrid for Phalaenopsis bellina.

Interesting as these may seem (and very welcome if true), I would treat these claims from Taiwan with some scepticism. I'm still waiting for the so-called 'meristem' paphios from some breeder from that country......Without doubt Taiwan breeders are in the forefront of phalaenopsis breeding but until I see the first flowering of these intergeneric hybrids I will not rush to get these plants. In my younger and less wise days of the early 1960s I was persuaded to part with MRgt 40, which represented a quarter of my monthly salary then, to pre-book a cross of Phal Doris 4n x V Rothchildiana. About 3 months later, a group of us (yes, there were a lot of less wise men even then) collected the thumb-pots of what looked like phalaenopsis plants. A couple of years later after much TLC and coddling those of us who bloomed this cross were rewarded with poor examples of amablis-like blooms....so much for the first 'blue' phals! Of course, it's easier nowadays just to go the florists or supermarkets for our blue 'fix' that even likes ice cubes!
What would really interest me would be the intergeneric Phal-type breeding in the mould of Renanthopsis ( Ren x Phal) Starfire and Asconopsis (Asctm x Phal) Irene Dobkin. There has been very little work done along these lines since the 1960s. Anyone who has seen a fine specimen of Starfire on a branched spike with close to 60 large phal-like, salmon coloured blooms could not help but be awestruck. I still see mericlones of Asconopsis (Vandaenopsis) Irene Dobkin being offered for sale and only one other Asconopsis of note i.e Jiuho Orange. I just wonder why Renanthera x Phalaenopsis and Ascocentrum x Phalaenopsis are so difficult to produce (?) seeing that these genera are so promiscuous . Apologies for an ancient one's ramblings.

[Azizan]

Renanthera x Phalaenopsis and Vanda (Ascocentrum) x Phalaenopsis are also interesting. Phalaenopsis x Seidenfadenia mitrata that I saw was pink colour with short spur. I think it is a legit cross except (maybe) they are not for sale. Vandaenopsis Irene Dobkin had been successfully continued to be used in breeding to produce other Vandaenopsis and one Yapara. I hope to get it one day as well.

---------- Post Merged at 04:34 PM ----------

Apparently, you can also google image "vanda sansai blue x phalaenopsis sogo yukidian", the first image I think is legit Vandaenopsis except it is not blue but pink instead. You can go to their website from there and there are many interesting intergeneric hybrids. I don't read chinese though. I always have skepticism with "blue" hybrids as sometimes it is the camera or computer screen that doesn't capture or show the true colour of the so called "blue". I need to see it to believe it as for blue hybrids.