Paph Gurus - HELP!

[Diane]

I think I have found my Winston Churchill - leaning toward Indomitable, like the spots- but need clarification on something. The grower says the plants are ' FCC/AOS clones '. The man is a reputable grower/breeder, so I would not normally doubt him, but I have always been told you can not clone Paphs. So - can they clone Paphs? If not, then what does he mean by saying the plant is a clone? (I see other paphs listed as clones in many places)

I'm soooo confused...

[Diane]

Say - did all the Paph people take the day off?? I thought sure someone would have explained all this to me by now. C'mon you Gurus, explain this mystery to me!

[Orchidzrule]

Hi Diane,

I know less about Paphs than you do, never having grown them. However, I have been informed by someone who does know what he's talking about. It's true that you can't clone them via the usual tissue culture techniques. (Maybe some day someone will figure out how...)

The term clone can be used in a couple of ways, however. In some cases it simply means vegetatively propagated. Thus, if I were to divide an Oncidium Twinkle 'Fragrance Fantasy' into several smaller plants they would be clones of the mother plant. All Onc. Twinkle 'Fragrance Fantasy' originally came from an individual plant.

Similarly, with Paphs, you can divide plants with several growths. All of the resulting divisions would be correctly referred to by the same name, including Genus, species or grex, clonal name and AOS award (if any for the last two).

The bottom line to this rather long story, is he is not trying to pull a fast one on you. Don't be afraid to buy the plant.

Cheers,

Rob

[Diane]

Thanks Rob!

[Jmoney]

people sometimes use the term "clone" interchangably with "cultivar". It's probably not correct, but I say spike and I say clone even when dealing with paphs. It all depends on whether or not the vendor is reputable. There are some real clowns out there, especially in the paph world.

[Orchidzrule]

Diane,

If there is any discrepancy between Jason's coments and mine (especially with respect to reliability of a vendor) on Paphs, take his word over mine. I know Jason is very knowledgeable about Paphs.

I daresay clone & cultivar are not totally interchangeable terms, as there are some very stable cultivars that *can* be propagated by seed (many tomatoes, for example), but I think they're often pretty much the same thing. I believe a clone is, by definition, also a cultivar, but a cultivar is not necessarily always a clone. (Hope I'm not confusing you!)

Cheers,

Rob

[Diane]

I spend most of my time being confused any way LOL. The vendor is very reputable, is a much in demand lecturer in the local area and gives clinics on paphs and phrags. That is all he deals in and basically only sells his own 'creations'. I am getting a clone/cultivar/division/whatever of his FCC/AOS Winston Churchill Indomitable. The cat is going to have to go without catnip for a couple months to pay for it, but it is a plant with special meaning for me and I have waited a long time for it. When I get it I will post a picture (It's not in spike), and when it blooms also.

Then you guys will have PAPH ENVY!!! Ahhhhh hah hah hah ha haaaaaa

[SteveT]

Yes, it is possible to clone paphs, but nobody does it because they typically don't know how and the outcome isn't usually very good unless you have amazing techniques/media.

However, this one was definitely a division of an adult plant.

I think I have found my Winston Churchill - leaning toward Indomitable, like the spots- but need clarification on something. The grower says the plants are ' FCC/AOS clones '. The man is a reputable grower/breeder, so I would not normally doubt him, but I have always been told you can not clone Paphs. So - can they clone Paphs? If not, then what does he mean by saying the plant is a clone? (I see other paphs listed as clones in many places)

I'm soooo confused...

[Jmoney]

I don't know how you can say definite unless you know the vendor in question and can vouch for reliability.

And I have yet to hear of anyone reliably cloning paphs. I'm sure it will happen at some point but so far it's just a pile of rumors to me.

[SteveT]

The reason I can say it is definite is because there is no other reasonable possibility. I would know if someone was offering cloned paphiopedilums, so via reductio ad absurdum, it is a division.